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Hamstar2

A few Ruling questions

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Hey everyone,

So I had a few questions. Does unarmed attacks require a Weapon Module, or is everyone assumed to be trained in it? And if someone was to get the Exclusive Weapon disadvantage, would it apply the -30 to unarmed attacks?

And I'm not sure if I missed this in the books, but are there rules for battling while swimming / underwater? Going off common sense, I would assume - to initiative, attack, dodge, and dmg. But if anyone ever had to use this scenario, I would appreciate some suggestions.

Thanks in advance,

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In order;

Does unarmed attacks require a Weapon Module, or is everyone assumed to be trained in it? Yes, it requires its own weapon module.

And if someone was to get the Exclusive Weapon disadvantage, would it apply the -30 to unarmed attacks? Yes, it would. However you can not have "exclusive weapon: unarmed" (if thats a question)

And I'm not sure if I missed this in the books, but are there rules for battling while swimming / underwater? There are rules for swiming, but I do not know of any rules for underwater combat. sorry.

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First I want to add one thing to the post of Lia: although you must buy the Unarmed Fighting Module to be proficient in it, if you buy any single one Martial Art, it INCLUDES the Unarmed Fighting module.

 

The way "Exclusive Weapon: Martial Arts", is usually house-ruled...is that your Exclusive Weapon is a SINGLE Martial Art, and you apply a -30 penalty whenever fighting with another martial art or a mixed style. If the master is really really generous, he/she can allow the poor character to use "without" penalty the Arcane Martial Arts that can be directly accessed by the chosen Base Martial Art.

The entire point of why Unarmed Fighting cannot be chosen as an Exclusive Weapon is that while you can be disarmed or robbed of your weapon, you cannot be "disarmed" of your body (of course your four limbs can be torn apart...but then you wouldn't be able to wield a weapon anyway...). Now, since a 1CP penalty MUST always be a 1CP penalty...A character with Martial Arts can choose it as an Exclusive Weapon...meaning he can ONLY perform that martial art without penalty...which is very very bad for a Tao, anyway, since the greatest strength of a Tao is buyng tons of MA and combining them to spectacular effects. But then again: 1CP worth disadvantage must be a heavy burden...that's just how things work in Anima.

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It's non-official stuff but I'd go for a Swim check. Depending on the Difficulty Level achieved (or NOT achieved) a character might suffer an All Action Penalty and/or lose Fatigue and/or need to take a PhR check or start suffering damage from choking. Difficulty for the swim check might increase or decrease depending on the situation (one thing is a swimming pool, another is a stormy ocean...) and prolonged "swimming" should also require an Athleticism check...otherwise characters should start losing fatigue. If a character achieves an extremely high swimming roll, like two difficulty levels over the opponent with a minimal of Almost Impossible, you might even apply a good combat modifier...actually swimming in water might be used as an equivalent to acrobatics on earth.

These are just a few ideas on how to workout swimming-combat. Seems complicated, but once you determine a table on which characters make their swimming checks and all modifiers involved, it should work pretty smoothly.

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 The Swim check to counter (or worsen) an all action penalty seems like a good idea.

At the moment I'm trying to a merfolk like tribe so I'd thought rules for water combat might be helpful x)
Also, my apologies on the late reply, Finals were this week and it was hard to get any free time.

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I just used exclusive weapon: Hands. That covers all hand to hand styles. Especially as picking an MA that works with your martial art, would allow you the benefit of said MA and the weapon.

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Raybras said:

 You arent alliwed to pick hands(considered unarmed) but it can be used for a single martial art. 

 

No, martial arts isn't a weapon. it's a style, Much like combat modules and style modules.  The book makes no specification or limitation on unarmed. It makes no restriction on picking a single martial arts. That would be mechanically unsound, and stupid. Go reread the advantage.

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Sabaki said:

Raybras said:

 

 You arent alliwed to pick hands(considered unarmed) but it can be used for a single martial art. 

 

 

 

No, martial arts isn't a weapon. it's a style, Much like combat modules and style modules.  The book makes no specification or limitation on unarmed. It makes no restriction on picking a single martial arts. That would be mechanically unsound, and stupid. Go reread the advantage.

Edit: (Disadvantage).

And as a further adendum as to why trying to specify a Martial Arts as a weapon is idiocy, I refer you to the description on Combining Martial Arts (much like style modules). Where any martial arts learned isn't used solely, but is in fact integrated into the users own style. So you would in fact be declaring "My martial Arts" as a style, and receiving absolutely *No* disadvantage what so ever, as you could then grab weapons associated with that martial art, and they would all apply. Please stop passing peoples badly conceived house rules off as core.

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 Well then i guess the official errata and faq posted in 2009 is wrong and i am sorry to have repeated anything mentioned in said document. 

Its true that its not english, but you should consider the fact that im not a new player and i never talk about rulings considering house rules used in my games, but rather the official ones i know of

You can find tge french errata and faq here http://www.mediafire.com/?wrzazdvtahj  if you dont trust the link i posted, You can find it on edgeent.com in the "support" section of Anima rpg. Mind you will have to log in to have access to the files. 

Or you could also go through all 3 spanish web supplements, i believe they also have the answers. 

*Edit* heres the part that i talked about

 

Arme Exclusive (p23)

- S'applique à 1 (UNE) arme bien précise (pas une catégorie)
- Ne peut pas se prendre avec "Mains Nues"
- Peut se prendre avec 1 (UN) art martial (mais le malus s'appliquera à tous les autres arts martiaux) 

 

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Raybras said:

 Well then i guess the official errata and faq posted in 2009 is wrong and i am sorry to have repeated anything mentioned in said document. 

Its true that its not english, but you should consider the fact that im not a new player and i never talk about rulings considering house rules used in my games, but rather the official ones i know of

You can find tge french errata and faq here http://www.mediafire.com/?wrzazdvtahj  if you dont trust the link i posted, You can find it on edgeent.com in the "support" section of Anima rpg. Mind you will have to log in to have access to the files. 

Or you could also go through all 3 spanish web supplements, i believe they also have the answers. 

*Edit* heres the part that i talked about

 

Arme Exclusive (p23)

- S'applique à 1 (UNE) arme bien précise (pas une catégorie)
- Ne peut pas se prendre avec "Mains Nues"
- Peut se prendre avec 1 (UN) art martial (mais le malus s'appliquera à tous les autres arts martiaux) 

 

 That's mechanically inapplicable. For it to be so, it would have to specify the 'damage' calculator from a particular martial art. Whomever wrote this was trying to badly resolve a non-issue.  This errata needs errata, otherwise my prior argument still stands. Martial Arts as described in the book aren't in a sandbox, their benefits are wholly absorbed into the fighting style of the PC. 

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Raybras said:

Well, if you dont like the official ruling, do like any other GM and house rule it,  otherwise talk it out with Carlos(the creator of anima). 

Raybras said:

Well, if you dont like the official ruling, do like any other GM and house rule it,  otherwise talk it out with Carlos(the creator of anima). 

   I see nothing wrong with the rules as written in the book so far. If I see a set of English Errata that caused problems, I'll address them. As it is I have a hand full of minor issues caused by (optional) rules in supplemental books, but understand the thought behind them. The errata you just suggested is badly conceived. And as I said before it addresses a non-issue, as unarmed is considered a weapon in the base book. To declare it *not* a weapon, would mean you could choose Warhammer as your preferred weapon, never pick one up or become proficient with it (since it isn't required in the disadvantage to be able to use your exclusive weapon), and go hand to hand till your hearts content.

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Sabaki said:

That's mechanically inapplicable. For it to be so, it would have to specify the 'damage' calculator from a particular martial art. Whomever wrote this was trying to badly resolve a non-issue.  This errata needs errata, otherwise my prior argument still stands. Martial Arts as described in the book aren't in a sandbox, their benefits are wholly absorbed into the fighting style of the PC. 

 

 

1) Anima Studios (the people who make the official rules) have stated that Exclusive Weapon can only be taken with 1 (one) martial art. This means that if a Technitian, for example, wanted to fight using Tai Chi as his exclusive weapon it would work, but a Taoist with 10 Martial Arts would either only get the benifits for 1 or take the -30. I don't care if you agree or disagree, thats how it works officially. If you wish to submit other ideas as to how it could work please make sure it is understood it is a house rule.
It was explained here http://cipher-studios.com/AnimaBB/index.php?topic=576.msg11130#msg11130 on the official forums.

2) Your also forgetting that, if you allow a Taoist to choose "unarmed" and have all their Martial Arts included in the disadvantage, then it is in no way a disadvantage. It is merely an advantage. They have no reason to use any weapon other than your fists, and you can't be disarmed or have your weapon stolen. Effectively Taosist in that system get 1 free CP, any who don't are idiots. Which is the reason for the errata, CP are powerful and should not be given away for free.

3) It is mechanically viable: either they only have the effects of a single martial art (damage, bonuses, etc) or they use a combination of martial arts and have a -30 penalty to their attack ability. In the above example of a Technitian there is no problem because they will never learn another martial art, the same is probably true of Paladins, Thieves, etc. The only reason for the errata is combining martial arts in Taoists (noted above).

EDIT 4) Oh and, as per your argument of "unarmed" being a single module you are correct, but according to those rules you can not choose martial arts at all without the -30. Having a Martial Art automatically gives the Unarmed modules, but having the Unarmed module does not give the Martial Arts. Therefore if you are using a Martial Art you are using something different than "unarmed" and are therefore using a "different weapon". But I don't like using raw text because it causes most of the problems people have with these games. One of those a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not always a square things.

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 Again you're missing the point that Martial Arts are styles, not weapon modules. It doesn't differentiate between damage, and the other effects of an MA (at elevated costs I might add). And MAs still come with weapon listings, as per Dominus Exxet, that would give a group of weapons usable. And I would also mention that Choosing it for a normal weapon doesn't cause a negative when say a fighter uses a style module with his chosen weapon. Nor does it address the fact that a fighter with ki abilities could simply create a weapon from ki (with whatever mechanical aspects they wanted). This change specifically targeted at preventing Taoist from taking it. And is only any real limitation for a Taoist for the reasons I've given. I'm sure I'll see many more bad mechanical ideas pouring out of Anima at this rate. Thank God for it's art director.

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brewmaster_vitty said:

the smell of troll is getting pretty thick in here...

Calling people trolls is pretty offensive.

 

Btw, completely off topic, but I have to stress how nice the Graphic Design and Illustration on these books are. Superlative. Good purchase for that alone if nothing else. Even the choices on the binding. Quality materials too.

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Sabaki said:

 Again you're missing the point that Martial Arts are styles, not weapon modules. It doesn't differentiate between damage, and the other effects of an MA (at elevated costs I might add). And MAs still come with weapon listings, as per Dominus Exxet, that would give a group of weapons usable. And I would also mention that Choosing it for a normal weapon doesn't cause a negative when say a fighter uses a style module with his chosen weapon. Nor does it address the fact that a fighter with ki abilities could simply create a weapon from ki (with whatever mechanical aspects they wanted). This change specifically targeted at preventing Taoist from taking it. And is only any real limitation for a Taoist for the reasons I've given. I'm sure I'll see many more bad mechanical ideas pouring out of Anima at this rate. Thank God for it's art director.

 

1) Using a weapon with Martial Arts only gives the attack and/or defense bonus for the martial art associated with it. You do not gain any benefits from other martial arts or the special abilities of martial arts. Weapons are fairly useless even with these rules, as that at best you can have a +30 attack and defense with them compared to your base, and cannot have the special bonuses (for example Akijutsu weapons do not give a bonus on counter attacks). The rules are extremely ambiguous in the book so I thought that should be clerified as per the official rules on why it has nothing to do with this. Further if you use a weapon with a martial art you would take the -30 penalty so I don't understand why it was brought up.

2) Remember that Exclusive Weapon isn't "I can only use katanas" or "I can only use daggers" it is "I can only use this one dagger I got from my father" or "This is the ancestral katana of my family, it is the only weapon I can use". It is an exclusive, single weapon, not an exclusive weapon group. In this case a specific Martial Art is considered a weapon, and another Martial Art is considered a different "unarmed" weapon. Therefore you do take the -30. This is why weapon and style modules have no effect on this disadvantage.

     HOUSERULE: I house rule that you can use the Exclusive Weapon disadvantage with two weapons if you are a dual wielding fighter. Otherwise you would take another -30 on your off hand weapon. However, if you choose this option, you must use both weapons at all times. If you only use one you incur the -30 penalty just as if you used any other weapon.I would probably allow more weapons if they used some weird fighting style (only example I can think of is Zoro from One Piece using three swords), but with the same restrictions.

EDIT: Although I suppose if you [HOUSERULE: Exclusive Weapon means you can only fight with a weapon type (such as Longsword, Bastard Sword, Battle Axe, etc.), instead of a specific weapon], it would make sense for all martial arts to be affected by this advantage instead of a single one.

3) A style module with a weapon is a specific type of move made with the weapon. A different Martial Art is a completely different way to fight with your fists. It is more different than using a different long sword than you are used to, even in a special way.

4) A fighter with Ki abilities could create any weapon they wanted, but they could not make their exclusive weapon. No matter what they create, if they have exclusive weapon, they take a -30. I reiterate number 2 above.

5) Yes the change is to prevent Taoists from getting a free CP. pointed out in #2 of my previous post. A disadvantage should cause your character to be weakened in some way, your interpretation is that a Taoist with exclusive weapon is not weakened at all, while other classes do get weakened. Stealing a fighters bastard sword means he has to get it back, taking a -30 with any bastard sword he uses until he gets it back. This does not work with the Tao, if he gets his arms and legs cut off, sure he can't use it then, but then neither could the fighter.

6) As to your last point about balance, yes the game has some unbalance. However intentionally adding more imbalance is not something to strive for.

7) Lastly: Martial Arts are not styles or weapon modules. Further neither weapon modules or styles have an effect on this disadvantage (see number 2 of this post). Anima Studios ("The Word of God" as they say) has spoken on this issue, that means the official rules have been set. You cannot say the official rules work a different way, but you can say that they should not be that way. I argue they should be as Anima Studios rules with numbers 1-6, however this is my biggest problem with your posts. This is the official rules, no matter how much you disagree that will not change. If you think they should be a different way HOUSERULE it, but don't argue the official rules are with you because they are not.

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Sabaki said:

Ahh. That *one* weapon. That's a completely different matter. I assumed weapon group meant class or broad module.

Ya. A lot of people do, and it makes more sense in my opinion if it were a single weapon like Longswords or Bows. But official rules of this game are weird.

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