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Stenun

One of the things that annoys me the most about this forum ...

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I disagree to dividing the world into people who care about something being official and those who don’t. There are for example also a lot of people, who were kind of dissatisfied with Arkham Horror—maybe because of Roland calling Nyarly with the Massa or maybe just because they unknowingly broke the rules in a game-worsening manner. These people search the internet for rules, that might improve their game and usually prefer official solutions, but not because they are official, but just because they want a quick solution instead of deliberating about every house rule ever conceived and how they interact with each other. They are going to stick to whatever is official, because this way they are most likely (from their point of view) to end with a consistent set of good rules as a result, without spending too much effort.

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I dont' really get the point of this topic then.

At the beginning, it seemed that the problem was how certain forumites tended to force other players to change their mind about rules or ways of living the game. Now the problem seems to be that Kevin might change the rules according to what some people might suggest. So, what's the problem in reading the topics? There is no direct dialogue with Kevin here (I've been writing here for two years and I *never* saw a post made by Kevin in this forum), so no one should see this "pushing". Then: the FAQs are in progress, and it's one year and a half (minimum) they are in progress. I don't think honestly we will see them coming out before the end of the next year, and even in this case, if we don't like some of the new rules, none will force us to play accordingly to them. But it's important to have them, because they are an official POV on something made by people who understand the game better than most of the Arkham players around the world (and even if Tibs suggested something, I'd be fine with this. I trust completely Tibs, or Avi, or Brian because they played so many games of Arkham they truly understand how it works. I don't think any of the three aformentioned guys would have approved the Lurker Herald, or the moving gates flipping into vortices without knowing what happens thing, or the useless of having a Cult Encounter deck of Encounter none would ever use. They proved on several occasions their logic is able to find loopholes in the game, and their logic is very difficult to fail. Maybe I don't feel I'd play everything like they do - see the closing gates victory condition we discussed of some threads ago - but I always listen to what they say because they're light years more advanced than me).

Then: certain victory or certain death.

I don't have any problems with a game loss during set-up (it never happened to me anyway, in 130 games played. I lost at turn 2, but never during set-up. So, I'd say, the odds of instant death are quite low, while a Roland + Nyarly game ends in victory in the 100% of the cases). For different reasons:

a) the game is a game where little men try to beat the endless power of the Ancient Ones. It seems implicit to me that sometimes things can get screwed since the beginnig (thematical coherence with the Mythos, we could say)
b) a quick loss means reshuffling the decks. Half an hour lost, and then I can play again. Not a big problem. Besides, it can be a good thing for your ego having the Hell beat out of your ass, but that's just my opinion, of course

On the other hand, having a certain victory makes the game compeltely futile. I'm confortable with some extremely rare combinations able to give you an auto-win during final combat. They are so rare (and I'm not a person who's hunting for them, so I don't try to break the game instead of playing it) that they don't bother me. But I'm not comfortable at all in playing a game knowing that if I keep somebody alive, then it's an auto-win by default. So, if we have to discard the Healing Stone before entereing the Final Battle, then Michael has to be vulnerable to Rhan's attack (it's the same thing. Simply, you cannot "discard Michael when the AO wakes up"). These are not lucky and difficult to obtain combos; these are major flaws in the design (of the AO? probably. Of the Investigator? Who knows) and must be fixed (and then everybody is free to play the way he likes, regardless of the new rule)

Last: overpowered and underpowered

Yeah, not all investigators have the same potential. But honestly, I think only two of them are poorly designed: George and Vincent. I hate playing them, simply because they are not able to do anything good. Patrice is not poorly designed, she's simply above the others,and I think this was done with conscience. You can still play her and still find difficult the game: if you're a noob, or if you like spending clues on futile skill checks, or even if you are an experienced player and have a lot of bad luck. Not all Arkham players play at the same level, and having an extra help could help them in having fun even in the most difficult games. Many people - for instance - don't play Dagon & Hydra games, because they're too difficult. Patrice could offer them a chance to accept even these challenges. Then, when they'll feel enough comfortable, can decide not to play with her any longer, or start using Tibs' houserules for her. But how would they know these rules exist, if Tibs never spoke?

Finally, as Tibs said, if something is not interesting, simply don't read it. And I'd add: if you see something "pushy", share with the community your thoughts in the moment it happens :-)

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Personally, I wouldn't even bother reshuffling the stuff if I had a first or second turn loss.  I'd just redistribute any item types that were shopped for in turn one or two and reshuffle those decks.  I'd leave out all the same characters, skills, etc, and just reshuffle the mythos deck.  Save 20 minutes ;')

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Yeah, I don't exactly like the idea of first-turn losses. But in a game that pits investigators against insurmountable odds and looming cosmic evils, an automatic win is a much more egregious fault.

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Opinions are like farts, everyone is partial to their own but think all others stink.  Now let's get back to arguing about something worthwhile like whether or not Shubby puts out on the first date or how many people Avi has exploded.

 

Thus spake arkhamresident
Guardian of the Great Seal
Keeper of Nyarly's spare keys
Best thing to happen to the internet since pr0n

.

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arkhamresident said:

Opinions are like farts, everyone is partial to their own but think all others stink.  Now let's get back to arguing about something worthwhile like whether or not Shubby puts out on the first date or how many people Avi has exploded.



I argue none that you can prove.

I hope...

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arkhamresident said:

Shub-Niggurath said:

 

arkhamresident said:

 

Now let's get back to arguing about something worthwhile like whether or not Shubby puts out on the first date

.

 

sorpresa.gif

 

 

Yeah, I meant the god...  oops.

Awwwwwkwaaaaaard ;'D

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I've never gotten the impression that anyone is really pushing their views on these forums.  There's definitely some heated debates, but that's good.  It makes you consider other options.  You now have the choice as to if you'll use that different opinion, or not, and how you want to approach the game from that point on.  I love this game because it is hard, and there is so much open to interpretation, but I would hate it if I was handed an automatic win every time a certain combination came up.  Yes, on auto loss can be frustrating, but preferable to auto wins.  If people are giving ideas to make the game harder, great.  I'm a huge fan of Lovecraft's works, and I think the amped difficulty fits well with the theme (I, personally, don't go to the police station to become deputized because the carriage makes me feel like I'm cheating).  A lot of his stories provide an element of the characters feeling helpless at points.  It also makes sense that some characters are stronger or weaker than others, but they do try to keep it as level as possible.  The thing is though, that's reality to.  Some people are better or worse at certain things than others, but that gets reciprocated.  The weaker ones may be the stronger in the right situation

If someone wants to follow the boxed rules absolutely, fine.  I don't neccessarily agree with that, but hey, it's their house rule.  I want to know the most current rules because they often address issues that have come up in the game.

In my opinion, this almost boils down to the fact that the people on these forums generally aren't just casual players.  They feel strongly about the game in question.  They're opinions, may be strongly worded, but i don't think anyone here is disillusioned enough to think that their word is gospel.  If you don't agree, then you don't agree, but even if you don't like the tone of the post, you can still find elements to the game that you really like, and that enhance your experience.  I think that's what drives this game to get better and better.

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Havent made  a post in a while...  getting back into AH though after a bit of a haitus, thought I'd come back here.    Hopefully I'm not the unnamed poster  that grinds Julia's gears.   But you guys don't really care about that,  on to Arkham.

 

The best point I think was made by the OP was essentailly  "nobody gets as upset about Instant-lose situations as they do about Instant-Win ones."   On the whole that is very true.   My initial explaination for this phenomenon (which I am rejecting, btw)  was that if people drew an instant-loss, they just said  "oh well, lols, that was silly." and start a new game.   Hence, no outrage,  wastes 5 minutes, but otherwise, no big deal.   Whereas -as I believe another poster suggested-  Instant win games can take several hours.   However, if you're aware of the instant win scenario,  you can  simply share the same attitude.   "Oh well,  lols,  McGlenn drawn against RT.  Silly.  New game."  or better yet "new investigator"   This is exactly what I do, and why I STILL dont think that the change to RT was merited.    But so it was changed.   And my options are to either 1.  Ignore it.  or 2.  Accept it.

 

Now with regards to "everybodys way to play the game is equally valid"..     Well nobody has said this yet, so I'll say it.   You're wrong.    They aren't all equally good ways to play the game.   Anybody who house rules that investigators start with +4 clue tokens because "its more fun that way"  is clearly playing it wrong.    This was a deliberately extreme example.  The point was it becomes a matter of degree, whether you are bending the rules to suit your taste, or breaking them.   

 

Furthermore, if AH is ever going to have any sort of tournoment/competitive/league play....  the rules must be standardized.   Whether you can Joe-Gun or not makes a huge difference.  Now I understand that the vast majority of people don't give much of a care with regards to league play,  but I'm just saying that an official variant is important.

 

Investigators ARE supposed to be balanced with respect to each other.   They are not supposed to be balanced against each other.    Its less "who could win in a fight, Joe or Akachi?"  and more "who would you rather have on your team, Joe or Akachi?"     Investigators with support abilities tend to have (IMO) more powerful abilities than investigators whose abilities help only themselves.   There are exceptions,  Vincent being the main example.   But you have to understand, Vincent was back in the base game.   He isn't the standard by which all is judged anymore.    In the base game, 3 speed not as devestating, his power was still a little weak,  but I dont think that anybody at FFG realized that at the time.  I could be wrong,  but that's my guess.     But to get to the point, Yes,  Jim and Patrice are supposed to be equally strong.   And you really have to consider expansions when you think about character design.   Patrice's ability fits right in with Innsmouth, and was likely though of as  being an easier way to clear the very difficult Feds Raid Innsmouth track from a safe distance, with the help of 2 investigators tag-teaming it.   Probably they didn't really consider Patrice farming clues while people randomly jump into gates with no clue tokens.   Jim was from an expansion that added undead monsters, and 2 very nasty ones at that (Wraiths)  his ability has been significantly dilluted with the addition of more expansions.   Beyond that the Golden Trumpet remains IMO, one of the best starting items a character can have.    His ability again is a bit weak, but added in an expansion that added 2 gates with no Green.      Now *are* they balanced with respect to each other?  No of course not.  But were they intended to be?  Yes, I think so.

 

Finally, quibbling over rules ins and outs, investigator power levels, etc, etc... is kind of what the forum is *for*.   If you're happy with your own way to play the game then...  either dont log on in the first place, or don't pay us any attention.

 

-awp

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awp832 said:

either dont log on in the first place, or don't pay us any attention.

Hi awp, nice to hear from you.  I believe the proper expression is "don't pay us no nevermind."  I've been grading papers, you see.

League play is a fair point.  But people in leagues should remember that league games are fundamentally different from regular games. 

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... is that noone can rationalize how does a motorcycle allow people to read more tomes. Anyone. Someone. Please. I think this has to be the uber-rationalization task.  

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Advosan said:

... is that noone can rationalize how does a motorcycle allow people to read more tomes. Anyone. Someone. Please. I think this has to be the uber-rationalization task.  

Hey, just because no one accepted my rationalization doesn't mean I didn't do it.

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Advosan said:

... is that noone can rationalize how does a motorcycle allow people to read more tomes. Anyone. Someone. Please. I think this has to be the uber-rationalization task.  

This has been rationalized multiple times in the thread where you asked us to rationalize it. I should hope you're not still acting like we didn't.

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Tibs said:

Advosan said:

 

... is that noone can rationalize how does a motorcycle allow people to read more tomes. Anyone. Someone. Please. I think this has to be the uber-rationalization task.  

 

 

This has been rationalized multiple times in the thread where you asked us to rationalize it. I should hope you're not still acting like we didn't.

Rationalizing while moving was easy. But my pondering was over rationalizing while not movinghappy.gif... I still don't know if there can be a solid answer to this- maybe huge Locations but it is still a patch rather than a solution. Other stuff too, like going bankrupt or getting arrested  while in OW, paying for elephant guns during the Final Battle, having to pass horror check before using the wmd Flute of the OG, some small irrationalities exist. But of course noone can demand theme over mechanics; that would be, well ... truly irrational.

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Yes...  it all makes no rational sense doesn't it..   It defies all logic.   That's what's so **** terrifying about books/motorcylces/elephant guns/bank loans/ the police/ flutes of the outer gods/ etc/ etc/ etc  in the Cthulu mythos.

 

 

 

BOOM!   Rationaliz'd   Take that.   Rationaliz'd FOR-EVR.  

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