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SideshowLucifer

Greece...WTH??

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So we just got done playing a few games with the expansion and I have to ask what the designers were thinking when they made the Greeks.  Seriously, the Greece not only has an amazing special ability (especially in smaller games), but then they get to start with Democracy, which means level 2 infantry, and they get an extra great person draw and pick the best one.

Any one of those abilities would be good, but added all together makes Greece nearly unbeatable.  Their special ability allows them to keep all their research as long as they research a tech no one else knows or is researching the same turn.  If Greece is able to get ahead, then they are able to just keep outpacing everyone in tech.  In small games, they are unstoppable. 

So why does Greece seen to have no weakness and a plethora of strengths?  Are they meant to be the single force the entire games revolves around to keep them from winning?

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I would think their tech ability gets a lot less powerful with more players - even with 2 players, they may end up taking suboptimal techs early on just to avoid matching.  Late game it barely matters, a well developed civ can tech every turn after the mid game anyway.  With 4-5 players, someone will probably take a matching tech just to spite Greece.

Starting democracy is almost a disadvantage if going for early combat because you can't attack cities.

All the new civs are fairly powerful - I just played a game as the Arabs and I was confidently attacking barb huts with my starting forces.  (Mathematics starting tech = lvl 2 artillery, and spend iron for +3 strength, and you start with one of each market resource.  And get 2 culture for spending resources).

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In our three player game with them we had two players that were able to accurately guess correctly and force him to spend his trade on about half the turns.  Although we did alter the researching to everyone reveal at once not giving him a chance to hesitate, see what everyone else was learning and then pick his.  We thought it worked better with the mechanics that way.

Arabs were against them, and were able to culturally dominate and win via Technology before the Greeks.  Although it might have been possible that limiting the Greeks to the Capital city with some luck of available city placing tiles and bad playing by the Greeks had something to do with it.

For others, see my post about the Spanish and give me your feedback.

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SideshowLucifer said:

So why does Greece seen to have no weakness and a plethora of strengths?  Are they meant to be the single force the entire games revolves around to keep them from winning?

They have a great technology advantage but that's all. Yes, they have upgraded infantry, but anyone who conctentrated on military hard enough could easily beat them.

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After 1 or 2 turns Greece could has more trade than need and spend it to coins using democracy. With coins invested in military bonus Greece isn't so weak oponent.

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"After the Greece researches a tech that no other player knows or is researching that turn, they retain all of the trade on ther dial"

I have one question about it. Maybe strange, but... Is that "no other" connected with only  the first condition or with both? I guess that with both, but my friend is quite sure that no.

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The Greeks zero their trade dial if the tech the researched is the same as any other player researched OR they learned a new tech that someone already knows. So if after the tech phase if the greeks researched the same tech this turn as is on anyother board, ZERO the DIAL. It can be powerful in any game. I mostly play 4 players and it has been good for them. However they have in all but one case lost to the Arabs, which one of the groups I play with bans them, they are sooooo rediculous.

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