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Blood Pact

First Founding Feedback?

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Dulahan said:

That's the one.  It's mentioned as being well liked by the Deathwatch because it suits them well.

It also looks stupid and just doesn't exist in my particular version of the 40k universe. It doesn't really do anything the Thunderhawk didn't do except be small enough that they could make a model of it to sell.

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 I haven't compared the stats of the Stormraven and the Thunderhawk in a long time, but in the fluff, the Stormraven is faster and more agile- better for landing small strike teams than the Thunderhawk's role of mass lander/heavy support. The maneuverability of the Stormraven makes it the preferred craft for Blood Angel and Grey Knight (and presumably Deathwatch) landings in places like hive spires. That, and from a logistical standpoint, the Stormraven probably uses less promethium per kilometer traveled than the Thunderhawk, so using it to land smaller teams makes more sense.

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Im with Borithan on this one.  As a model, I am not a fan. I can understand a smaller, lighter, more maneuverable craft being heavily used by the Deathwatch, I just hate the idea of it as a whole. Nothing was wrong with a Thunderhawk fluff wise. The Stormraven is just a model that brings GW the bacon.

But then again, Im partial to wanting to see Stormbirds. The 'original' Thunderhawk.

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Oh, I know they were bigger. The idea of the larger Stormbirds in the stories as they streak in, bull rushing through enemy flak and disgorging squads and primarchs is a vision that right now only my imagination can paint. Now that I think about it maybe I don't want to see it, might not live up to my expectation.

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 Mind you, going by some of the Heresy novels (Fulgrim springs to mind), Stormbirds were capable of carrying whole companies, or at least a significant percentage of one.

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Lucrosium Malice said:

Oh, I know they were bigger. The idea of the larger Stormbirds in the stories as they streak in, bull rushing through enemy flak and disgorging squads and primarchs is a vision that right now only my imagination can paint. Now that I think about it maybe I don't want to see it, might not live up to my expectation.

Oh, dear Emperor... but it LIVES!

http://z11.invisionfree.com/Work_In_Progress/index.php?showtopic=15227

(Not mine, just found it, if you haven't been aware of this already.)

 

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The Stormbird is a markerting release. It does not make any sense at all, entering atmosphere with a dreadnought outside the craft? Dumbest idea ever....

It's just a thunderhawk 1/4th of the price.

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crisaron said:

The Stormbird is a markerting release. It does not make any sense at all, entering atmosphere with a dreadnought outside the craft? Dumbest idea ever....

It's just a thunderhawk 1/4th of the price.

 

I think you mean Storm Raven, but I forgive you. :)

And csabesz, I think I was right. Not how I envisioned it. I always figured it was sleeker with broad sweeping wings. Still though, pretty cool find!

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 I really like the work put into the new chapters, specialties, and what have you, but I'm not keen on the fact it introduces all the goofy additions to the various power creep codexes over the past couple years. I mean, I understand WHY they added them, because someone was going to ask for the stats to a Librarian Dread, but it doesn't make it any less goofy to me.

Luckily, my group feels the same way as me and it seems we're all pretty good at just blanking our minds when we get to those pages, in which we remark that FFG wasted a lot of paper just leaving some of the pages blank.

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Well it's not a Codex, so it's not like you can take that Libby Dread and go and 'beat' someone else with it. Deathwatch is a competitive sport after all. It's an RPG.

And yeah, it means that we now have 40K RPG rules for some of the more goofy things Matt Ward has created, such as 'Blood Talons' and 'Blood Fists' and 'Nemesis Doom Fists' and all that jazz, but FFG has to operate within the confines of GW's world, so you take the good with the soul-crushingly bad.



Anyway, I've had a skim over First Founding. I still don't like the book all that much, but I never really have (no offence to Nathan!). From my point of view it's just another stepping stone on the way to the fleshed-out majesty that is The Jericho Reach. The artwork in FF is nice though. happy.gif

BYE

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borithan said:

Dulahan said:

 

That's the one.  It's mentioned as being well liked by the Deathwatch because it suits them well.

 

 

Actually its well liked by the BA.  Hehe. You may be right that it is to sell more models for GW.  But in a tactical manner, its 12 squad members or 6 man squad and one dreadnought.  Its just about the right size of a KT so to speak.  So the DW may also fancy this transport.

Perhaps chapters on the may fancy the thunderhawk as they are better for insertion of larger forces.  Imagine to ferry a force company they'd have to put bout 9 storm ravens out or 9 trips by a single storm raven (which sounds daft to me).

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I've seen conversions where people 'fix' the fuselage too, making it in to something a lot nicer looking in my own opinion.

And now that I have the book I have to say I'm liking it. And that it was silly of me to think that the White Scars would have a bike as a relic/trapping. I think I'll make a character with a Trophy Rack, and collect scalps.

Also, I was wondering if anyone could verify wether the Duelling Tulwar was supposed to be Primitive (since the other traditional weapons aren't)?

Edit: Also, anyone want any more specific spoilers?

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Blood Pact said:

And now that I have the book I have to say I'm liking it. And that it was silly of me to think that the White Scars would have a bike as a relic/trapping. I think I'll make a character with a Trophy Rack, and collect scalps.

 

You could always rework the Ravenwing advanced class as it does come with a bike as standard equipment at rank 1.  Since the ravenwing's job is to hunt the fallen, it's not much of a stretch to change a few things and just make it a white scar hunter ala "hunt for voldorius".

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 So, First Founding doesn't have any mechanical information on the Legions that turned to Chaos? IE: Characteristic bonuses, solo/squad mode abilities, trappings, etc. That's a bit of a let down, because I was... let's just say, rather disappointed that the Black Shield advanced specialty worked the way it did. Honestly beyond Concealment and Silent move up to +10, and 3 Sound Constitutions, it really doesn't give you much of anything. Everything else in the advanced specialty is things you already have for just being a Space Marine. While I do understand that the three extra Sound Constitutions is nothing to sneeze at, lacking a chapter solo mode ability just doesn't sit well with me for some reason. Why would say a Space Wolf loose his extra senses? Or a Dark Angel stop being an unmovable force on the battlefield? Fluff wise it doesn't make much sense, although I understand they are trying to make you give up something that separates you from you other Battle-brothers, it was probably a bad choice on FFG's part to choose that particular mechanic.

Also, it would have been nice if I'd been able to put a pre-Heresy game together, with all of the Legions being playable, instead of just the ones that would eventually become loyal. I personally really enjoyed the fluff on Alpherius and Magnus, the Primarchs of the Alpha Legion and Thousand Sons respectively. While the information on Alpherius and his Legion could be seen as suspect, the information that I've read about Magnus made it pretty clear that there was a huge chance that he was given very little choice in the matter. He'd been given the short end of the stick, pretty much since he'd been sucked from Terra as a child.

 

Deepstriker said:

 

borithan said:

 

Perhaps chapters on the may fancy the thunderhawk as they are better for insertion of larger forces.  Imagine to ferry a force company they'd have to put bout 9 storm ravens out or 9 trips by a single storm raven (which sounds daft to me).

 

 

I found this link earlier today about a Stormbird inspired model being built. It's a Heresy model orbital transport vessal that could ferry a whole Company of Space Marines, between 60-100 of them for specific numbers.

Stormbird Lexicanum link javascript:void(0);/*1322806819710*/

Stormbird pictures link javascript:void(0);/*1322806738349*/http://www.tanksandtrolls.co.uk/40k%20Stormbird%20Troop%20Transport.htm'>

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Blood Pact said:

I've seen conversions where people 'fix' the fuselage too, making it in to something a lot nicer looking in my own opinion.

And now that I have the book I have to say I'm liking it. And that it was silly of me to think that the White Scars would have a bike as a relic/trapping. I think I'll make a character with a Trophy Rack, and collect scalps.

 

Whatever one thinks about the form of the Stormraven (I have no complaints myself), it was a necessity in my humble opinion. Special Forces soliders like Astartes need an aerial insert method. And an aerial insert method other than drop pods or jump packs.

The Thunderhawk is applicable for that role but it is multi-purpose and it's just too big for 40K. A smaller, more agile and more dedicated transport ship is a necessity and something that most marine chapters (= vanilla) should have.

 

Alex

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ak-73 said:

Whatever one thinks about the form of the Stormraven (I have no complaints myself), it was a necessity in my humble opinion. Special Forces soliders like Astartes need an aerial insert method. And an aerial insert method other than drop pods or jump packs.

The Thunderhawk is applicable for that role but it is multi-purpose and it's just too big for 40K. A smaller, more agile and more dedicated transport ship is a necessity and something that most marine chapters (= vanilla) should have.

I agree. There was a niche that needed to be filled. Though it's the execution of the concept that lets it down. The miniature isn't the best plastic kit GW have ever produced.

The Caestus assault ram is a far better mid range niche-filling option, in my opinion.

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 I'm with Alex and Lightbringer. The Stormraven serves as a response to the IG's Valkyrie; a small, fast combat gunship/dropship perfect for deploying and redeploying squads along a battle line. Seems right up the alley of a force designed for quick insertions of smaller groups at key locations. Read: a rapid response force like the Space Marines are supposed to be. That said, I absolutely ADORE the Caestus Assault Ram, and I kinda wish it got more love in the fluff. Also, would really like official Deathwatch stats for one of those.

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Gaire said:

 

 I'm with Alex and Lightbringer. The Stormraven serves as a response to the IG's Valkyrie; a small, fast combat gunship/dropship perfect for deploying and redeploying squads along a battle line. Seems right up the alley of a force designed for quick insertions of smaller groups at key locations. Read: a rapid response force like the Space Marines are supposed to be. That said, I absolutely ADORE the Caestus Assault Ram, and I kinda wish it got more love in the fluff. Also, would really like official Deathwatch stats for one of those.

 

 

 

Agreed.  I'm not seeing an issue with the retconning of a squad level transatmospheric transport for space marines.  It always seemed weird for me to see Thunderhawks (which are capable of transporting 30 marines IIRC) transporting a small handful like a combat squad in various novels.  It's like renting a full size city bus to carpool to work with 3 friends.  Drop pods provide a convient disposable way of entering the battlefield but not of leaving it (at least post-heresy).  Now, the actual look of the storm raven is another story...

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Sanguinary Priest said:

Drop pods provide a convient disposable way of entering the battlefield but not of leaving it (at least post-heresy).  Now, the actual look of the storm raven is another story...

Much more importantly, droppodding makes quick re-deployment difficult.

 

Alex

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Sanguinary Priest said:

Now, the actual look of the storm raven is another story...

 

Yeah.  Exactly.

 

It boggles me that someone said they refuse to acknowledge it's existence because they don't like how the model looks.  Crikey, there's a lot in 40k that can be ignored if that's the case.  Just pretend it looks better in Deathwatch!

 

 

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I have some questions about Followers. Specifically Loyalty. Only the Chapter Serf has a Loyalty stat listed, but it's clear that other followers should have loyalty as well, most notably the Fenrisian Wolves. They are supposed to have loyalty, as proved by the Large Wolf Pelt in the gear section, but they don't have one. WTH? The book also doesn't go over how loyalty would be calculated. So frustrating.

Other than that, some really cool stuff in the book. My favorite among these the Fenrisian Wolf, despite the problems with the Followers section, the Wolf Priest [hot **** that artwork is awesome], and the Ultramarines Honor Guard. I really like that the Honor Guard can be adapted to fit with any chapter, even one that isn't Codex compliant. You could use it to represent the Wolf Guard or the Sanguinary Guard if you really wanted to.

PS: I might like Space Wolves :P

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Dulahan said:

Sanguinary Priest said:

Now, the actual look of the storm raven is another story...

 

 

 

 

Yeah.  Exactly.

 

It boggles me that someone said they refuse to acknowledge it's existence because they don't like how the model looks.  Crikey, there's a lot in 40k that can be ignored if that's the case.  Just pretend it looks better in Deathwatch!

 

 

 

I could see people refusing to use it on the tabletop because of its ugly design but I'd have a hard time justifying that in an RPG (even one that heavily uses minis like my group).  Either way, there are kits (for an additional fee of course) that complete the design and turn it into something more akin to other marine vehicles.  I'm getting a chapterhouse storm raven kit to lengthen the hull and plan on turning the turret on top to a remote one more akin to the razorback's.  Finally, the supertall air scoop on top is getting 2/3 of its height chopped off.  With those changes, the storm raven actually looks decent!  Not exactly what I'll be doing but a close enough pic from someone else below:

 

258052_md-Chapterhouse,%20Stormraven,%20

 

 

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