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Primus_Magicus

The Iron Rock Spoiler

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 So, I am done. Let the discussions begin. Let me know when I have some typo errors or forgot something.


41
(unique) Guild of Engineers.
Dwarf Unit. 2 DDD. 1P, 1HP. Engineer.
Kingdom. Action: When you play an Engineer unit from your hand, gain 1 resource.
Quest. Action: When you play an Engineer unit from your hand, draw a card.

42
Banna Thief.
Orc Unit. 2 O. 0P, 2HP. Goblin. Standard Bearer.
Action: When a unit enters this zone, target unit gains P until the end of the turn.

43
(unique) Madtoof Ironleg.
Orc Unit. 4 OOO. 2P, 5HP. Hero. Troll.
Limit one Hero per zone.
Action: At the beginning of your turn, target unit you control gains P equal to its loyalty. Then, sacrifice it at the end of the turn.

44
Squiq Lobber.
Orc Unit. 2 OO. 1P, 2HP. Siege.
Battlefield. Action: At the beginning of your turn, put a resource token on this card.
Action: Remove a resource token from this unit to deal 1 indirect damage to target opponent.

45
Ruglud’s Armoured Orcs.
Orc Unit. 4 O. 2P, 2HP. Warrior.
Toughness X.
X is the highest loyalty of an Orc card you control.

46
Toof Trader.
Orc Unit. 2 O. 0P, 1HP. Trader.
Lower the cost of each Creature card you play by 1 (to a minimum of 1).

47
(unique) Martog’s Best Basha.
Orc Support. 2 OO. Attachment. Weapon.
Attach to a target Orc unit.
While attached unit is attacking, it gains P equal to the number of developments in the defending zone.

48
Expendable Wall.
Orc Support. 0 OOO. Fortification.
When this card enters play, sacrifice a unit in this zone or destroy this card.
Action: If this zone’s section of your capital would be dealt damage, destroy this card instead.

49
(unique) Boss Pit.
Orc Support. 4 OOOOO. 3P. Capital Center.
This card enters play with 4 resources tokens on it.
Action: At the beginning of your turn, remove a resource token from this card. Then, if there are no resources on this card, draw 10 cards.

50
Snotling Ambush.
Orc Tactic. 2 OOO.
Action: Discard a card from your hand with X loyalty to discard X resources from target player.

51
Mork’s Teef Ritual.
Orc Tactic. 0 OOOOO. Spell.
Action: Sacrifice an Orc unit to put a unit into play from your hand. Then, deal 3 damage to a section of your capital.

52
Sons of Coin.
Empire Unit. 2 E. 2P, 2HP. Noble.
Kingdom only.
Forced : At the beginning of your turn, spend 1 resource or deal 1 damage to this section of your capital.

53
Blessing of Asuryan.
High Elf Support. 2 HeHe. Attachment. Condition.
Attach to a target Mage unit you control. Attached unit gains P.
Action: At the end of your battlefield phase, if attached unit did not attack, put a Spell card from your discard pile on top of your deck.

54
Beastman Shaman.
Chaos Unit. 3 CCC. 2P, 1HP. Sorcerer.
Action: When a Chaos unit you control is corrupted draw a card.

55
Countermoves.
Dark Elf Tactic. 2 DeDe. Witch Elf.
Play when an opponent plays a tactic.
Action: Destroy target unit.

56
(unique) Black Knight.
Neutal Unit. 4. 2P, 2HP. Bretonnian. Knight.
Quest. While this unit is questing, opponents draw 1 fewer card during the quest phase (to a minimum of 1).

57
Burial Mound.
Neutral Support. 2. 1P. Undead.
Destruction Only
Lower the cost of the first card you play from your discard pile each turn by 1.

58
(unique) Chakax.
Neutral Unit. 4. 1P, 2HP. Hero. Lizardmen.
Order Only, Limit one Hero per zone.
Savage 2
Action: When you play a unit with Savage from your hand, deal 1 damage to that unit.

59
Pool of Tranquility.
Neutral Support. 2. 1P. Lizardmen. Location.
Order Only
Action: Spend 2 resources to draw a card. Then, choose and discard a card from your hand.

60
Raiding Parties.
Orc Quest. 0 OOO.
Quest. Action: When this card enters play, draw a card
Quest. Action: When you play an Orc non-Attachment support card from your hand, destroy target development if a unit is questing here.
 

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 I did not forget Order only at the bretonnian card, it's just not on the card. Error?? 

 

My first impressions: Cool pack! Maybe not all cards for competitive play, but fun for thematic decks anyway.

5 unique cards! 

Cool Troll Hero.

Toof Trader looks fun for creature deck (I still have to look which cards are creatures) 

Expendable wall and Squiq Lobber artwork is hilarious:)

Beastman Shaman looks powerfull with the cards from The Inevitable City pack, but at 3 loyalty and 1 HP it is risky and fragile.

Countermoves looks really powerfull.

Burial Mound is a nice addition to the Undead.

Chakax, I am personally really happy with that guy. Boost to Savage decks, won't make it competitative yet though.

Lizardmen support I don't know what to do with it really. Do not see why this is a lizardmen deck and with 2 resources the action seems to be too expensive. I like the artwork though! 

Orc Quest is good I think.

 

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Primus_Magicus said:

52

 

Sons of Coin.
Empire Unit. 2 E. 2P, 2HP. Noble.
Kingdom only.
Forced : At the beginning of your turn, spend 1 resource or deal 1 damage to this section of your capital.

 

They made it...

Really unbelievable... The greatest aberration of the game...

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Shindulus said:

Primus_Magicus said:Sons of Coin.

They made it...

Really unbelievable... The greatest aberration of the game...

If Empire would need cash in early game, this card would be one of the best. Good for the legends, or quick Hemmler. But what Empire needs so badly is more cards. Resources can be made by supports like Church of Sigmar, which must be played in kingdom sooner or later.

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A deck that generate power icon incredibly faster than any other deck does not need any special card to master others deck. He just has to put unit in game faster than the opponent is able to manage and you are always able to do it.

As your opponent has power icon slower than you he draws less cards, he can play less cards (cause he generates less ressources) and have less choice of  play (cause he draws less).


By the way empire also have "special" cards.

So Empire have access faster to its control cards, access faster to his finish cards and he is able to play them all.

 

Do you really believe that player don't build a major part of their deck with the goal :

"I need an important proportion of 0 to 3 costs cards only to assume that I have a good starting hand".

 

In this way Empire can drive a Ferrari, while others factions drive LADA...

You just have to hope that your opponent's Ferrari engine will broke, which is quite impossible due to the technicians and security redundance you have to prevent your engine to broke.

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Terastimus said:

2 for a 2/2 is just.... insane. 6 gold on turn 2 is really crazy, very scary if the empire player starts first too.

 

6 gold = Karl Franz moving this unit to any zone Empire wants...

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Karl requires 5 loyality points aswell, but it wont be a problem with new quest, militia, derricksburg forge, imperial Zoo.

so yeah Empire starts will be freaking cosmic. And everything will be about cleaning enemy zones with Verena in second turn or casting Hemmler as fast as possible. No strategy, just simple moves, no thinking just attacking. Well I dislike this kind of game. During the European Championship at Stahleck Castle I faced 8 empires in a row during my way to the final, in most of this game there was a fast Hemmler, which is the winning card against most of the decks without damage cancelation. Something is wrong with this meta. I am not sure, but switching Hemmler and Wilhelm in restricted list would help a bit. Friedrich Hemmler is an aberration. It's not ok when something for 5 resources is 5/5 and has very strong forced effect. Ofc Wilhlem interfare oppent, still he doesnt kill him in 3 turns.

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 I Italy we say (ironically): FFG President has a son, and he surely uses to play Empire! gran_risa.gif

This could explain why Empire is so quick, so smart and lethal... an easy victory in most cases! aplauso.gif 

 

Finally i have to say I agree with you, Mamut...
Something is wrong with this meta...

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 I Italy we say (ironically): FFG President has a son, and he surely uses to play Empire! gran_risa.gif

This could explain why Empire is so quick, so smart and lethal... an easy victory in most cases! aplauso.gif 

 

Finally i have to say I agree with you, Mamut...
Something is wrong with this meta...

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Primus_Magicus said:

56
(unique) Black Knight.
Neutal Unit. 4. 2P, 2HP. Bretonnian. Knight.
Quest. While this unit is questing, opponents draw 1 fewer card during the quest phase (to a minimum of 1).

 

This unit don't have "order only" ;-)))

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I think a mayor designer problem with this game is the exponential growth of economy. Too many times the game isone or lost turn one or two, depending on the big difference in resource and card output depending on start hand.

I think it would be cool with some cards especially made for punishing players ahead of economy. Banna of da red sun is maybe an example. It would shurely make the game last longer, shift the focus from fast econ expand to battle and make the game a more thrilling experience.

I would not mind if they actually took some concepts from asymmetrical warfare into the card game What about cards like:

Factional rivalism: Neutral tactic: Cost 1. target player with resource exceeding 5 must take the exeeding resources as indirect damage.

Overstretched resourcelines: Neutral tactic: Cost 1. player must sacrifice all support cards except one in target zone.

Well maybe not the most balanced cards but you get the idea.

 

 

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I frankly wonder nobody complained about the new orc cards yet. In my eyes, with the Iron Rock, they once again wasted a great opportunity to balance the game just like they failed with our poor high elven tree-huggers.

Boy, how i tried to build pure orc decks. But i had to compete against Chaos, Dwarf and DE (Empire is kinda banned in our little round of players ^_^ ) and i may say that we are at least trying to play on a high level - constantly orientating on tournament decks but also experimenting. Now let me ask you tournament players out there one question, answer honestly: Is it possible to beat high class Chaos, Dwarf or DE decks with a pure orc deck (including the new bp) ?? At least get a win rate of lets say 40% ??? I really want to know.

The best you can do is an undead deck i guess. The new undead support is great. But i never heard of any Orc/UD decks in top5 of a tournament, oc i want to know what it looks like if there was one anywhere.

Ok, so what did orc need to compete:

- Just one good 2 cost / 1 power support for economy with a decent effect. What are playable orc supports? One Orc's scrap. That's about it :(

- Something that gives loyalty, like a 0 cost unit. (Teef ritual is great, but how would you have that many loyalty in a non-fluff orc deck?)

- One imbalanced card! Everyone's got one in the last months, look at the new chaos quest, unbelievable, also bleeding wall, empire will get the zoo and also a far better quest card! So i'm basically stuck with the new orc quest, which has a fairly sh*tty effect and does me cost lots of sh*tty supports i have to take in my deck to trigger it. Nice!

- A focus on one aspect. We got introduced to self-dmg orcs, big units orcs, squig orcs, but we are again with rush orcs and oc undead orcs ^__^~ So self-dmg is nothing more than a nice fluff until here, it's slow like the big units thing. But hey, let's introduce the squig deck: Tried to build that one as well!!! Ended up with like 35 cards of my deck blocked, but hey, thank god i got my cool squigs with all that cool effects they have, maaaan they are really giving me control above my enemy :D NOT

So instead we got a wild mixture and no card is really "WOW". Ritual is a good card, don't get me wrong, also the ambush is neat. But balance?? No :(

Take the Toof Trader. Did you see the 3 orc creature cards??? hahahaha, at least one squig is in it, isn't that something ?? ;) And giving such a card 0p and 1hp is the joke of the century.

But maybe i'm speaking against a wall whining myself out for injustice like a poor high elf. Guess everybody wants to see empire weakened, my idea would be to strengthen the others. Also you can post your cool squig decks right here in this thread. I will post mine for sure !!!! bet they all look the same -.-

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@gr4ffi - Are you serious? In my meta Orc's are one of the best races, and they constantly win many tournaments (both control and rush).

They have one of the best economy (We'z Bigga, Squig Tracker), rush (Spider Rider, Squig Tracker) and Control (Vomit and Pillage).

There are some concerns if Mork's Teeth Ritual can be a little bit broken - it can put Gringor in opponents turn, or Bloodthirster as a defender!

 

Jaszczur

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Could you please post me a card list of such a winner's decks? I would be glad, and yes iam serious and yes iam not THAT MUCH into the scene to know every last tournament there ever was and who's won it. My intention with that post was to see wheather somebody could actually give me proof of an orc deck that can compete with tournament decks of stahleck for example.

BTW i tried squig trackers, you gotta have some squigs in your deck to get a good boost from that one and even when taking all squigs in and making your deck worse, you might fail. Also with 3 loyalty it's not a starter...

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Jaszczurr said:

There are some concerns if Mork's Teeth Ritual can be a little bit broken - it can put Gringor in opponents turn, or Bloodthirster as a defender!

 

Rip Dere 'Eads Off! can also put Bloodthirster as a defender :P It can be countered by Long Winter, though.

gr4ffi said:

So instead we got a wild mixture and no card is really "WOW". Ritual is a good card, don't get me wrong, also the ambush is neat. But balance?? No :(

I agree that orcs, except for two tactics and a quest (that requires you to take rather weak supports to work...), didn't really get anything useful. However I would disagree that they're weak. It's just boring that we have to depend on core set cards for so long. Not mentioning that we HAVE TO play orc/something alliance because of lack of good supports besides One Orc's Scrap...

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Exactly my point, pure orc decks can not compete with other pure race decks. And it was given the opportunity to change that with the iron rock, but they failed again. I don't want to say, that orc is weak, but it would have been nice to see them on one level with chaos, dwarf and empire, that can all build fantastic pure decks. It did not harm the game when chaos got buffed.

Also, do you see any new orc card, that has to be in every orc deck? I want cards like Derricksburg Forge, Dwarf Canon Crew, Militia, Iron Disc, Whatever... for Orc, just to have a solid base for deck building. Tribal Tattoos was the last one :(

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gr4ffi said:

Exactly my point, pure orc decks can not compete with other pure race decks. And it was given the opportunity to change that with the iron rock, but they failed again. I don't want to say, that orc is weak, but it would have been nice to see them on one level with chaos, dwarf and empire, that can all build fantastic pure decks. It did not harm the game when chaos got buffed.

Only If by pure you mean no neutrals. Orc can easily smash all races, but empire, from my experience. In my deck I ran only one card from other faction. I think they only failed in not giving us good support, but as every capitol cycle battlepack has one fortification and one unique support, it looks like this couldn't have been avoided. No playable unit is another thing however...

 

gr4ffi said:

Also, do you see any new orc card, that has to be in every orc deck? I want cards like Derricksburg Forge, Dwarf Canon Crew, Militia, Iron Disc, Whatever... for Orc, just to have a solid base for deck building. Tribal Tattoos was the last one :(

And I don't even play themgran_risa.gif

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I just played this list here:

3 Expendable Wall
3 Warpstone Excavation
3 We'z Bigga!
3 Choppa
3 Contested Village
3 Crooked Teef Goblins
3 Spider Riders
3 Clan Moulder's Elite
2 Followers of Mork
3 Lobber Crew
3 Pillage
3 Squig Herders
3 Squig Trackers
3 Squig Pen
3 Waaagh!
3 Blood Dragon Knight
3 Troll Vomit

It was quite constant and Squig Trackers was a good boost although the 3 loyalty can be a minor problem sometimes. I played against empire and played aggressive so I didn't really have the option to play Expendable Wall. Because of that I can't really estimate how good the orc fortification is.

I guess Jaszczurr has a stronger deck list but it's a good start I think.

The reanimator/control archetype is also strong. I couldn't play a deck this type since the new cards but Morks Ritual and Snotling Ambush seem like strong cards but I can't make a decision what tactic either of these can replace. Pillage seems like a must, I also don't like to loose Rip or Raise Dead. Troll Vomit is also a card that I play in nearly every orc deck. We have to playtest more to make a choice.

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I honestly cannot see you having a chance with that against a good chaos deck for example. Chaos is so strong atm, it can control you completly while building up economy (raiding camps, war hounds, tzeentch) and it can sucessfull destroy rushes through den of inquity, long winter combinations or seduced by darkness or even plague bomb.

Here is a start of chaos i actually experienced once, btw. when he is up first you are doomed ;)

tzeentch, spawn and raiding camps + spoils of war  --> what will you play? he can kill supports and units in his 2nd turn and will constantly build up economy, you decide to attack in order to get control of spoils of war... mb he just wanted to force the attack for you can get no economy, he corrupts your attacking unit with seduced by darkness... next round he can kill your battlefield unit and it costs him zero.

when you are first, you should start with supports in order to avoid war hounds, but orc has no good supports and not many and he will have the quest later. sometimes you will end up with a unit start just because you had no other options.

And i really don't believe that an orc deck could get over 50% win against such decks.

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Of cause Chaos is very strong at the moment but I only responded to your demand of a 40% winning chance against any deck but it seems now you want a deck with at least 50% against Chaos.

"tzeentch, spawn and raiding camps + spoils of war --> what will you play? he can kill supports and units in his 2nd turn and will constantly build up economy, you decide to attack in order to get control of spoils of war..."

Ok that's really a good start but how realistic is it? Spoils of War is a 1 card per deck and when I play Chaos I don't often have the possibility to play a first turn Raiding Camps. Also you still need a questing unit wich makes the chances of having that starting hand further rare. Clan Moulders Elite and Blood Dragon Knight, which are usually played in any orc deck that isn't focused on odd numbers, are also units that Chaos can't remove instantly. Chaos also suffers from Troll Vomit and without Fledging there is also the danger of Lobber Crew. So I think Chaos it isn't that much ahead in this matchup. You can also switch to a reanimator/control deck packed with a little development control when you are afraid of Chaos economy. If you feel to have too little unitcontrol you can also take Easy Pickings or Foot of Gork in exchange for Waargh or Expendable Wall. I mean it's not the best orc deck that I can imagine but it's a solid base when you have no clue what to play.

"Chaos is so strong atm, it can control you completly while building up economy (raiding camps, war hounds, tzeentch) and it can sucessfull destroy rushes through den of inquity, long winter combinations or seduced by darkness or even plague bomb."

I think you have a quite onesided view in your card combinations. When I assume my opponent has the correct answers against me every game and every turn then I (or fast/rush orcs) wouldn't ever win against dwarfes, empire or HE because every turn I would get a damage canceler, Chain Lightning or Master Rune of Spite. But that's not the case because orcs can still play quite cheap and can therefore recover from a reset or against control better than other factions. I would be interested in the Chaos deck you play. The tactics seem: Long Winter, Seduced by Darkness, Plague Bomb. The chaos versions I play or play against don't always have Plague Bomb because it's often weak against Empire and HE. Unleashing the Spell is also very common and now with Khorvak there is also Blood Summoning. The quest is great of cause but you can't rely on it only so I still play Burn it Down. That makes a lot of choices but I wouldn't play more that 12 tactics because you still need a decent count on units for questing and you also want to play a fair number of support for quest synergy.

 

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