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TechVoid

Sister of Battle joining the DW

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Hi fellows,

I was thinking about playing a sister of battle for our female player.

At first I know that the Sisters of Battle are explained in the Inquisitors Handbook which I do not own. Furthermore I looked in the Dark Heresy Corebook where I found that the XP List goes only up to 15'000 XP.

This leads me to the question: Should I have to buy the Ascension Book in addition to the Inquisitors Handbook? IIRC there are further Details in the Blood of Martyrers?

This would be a lot of money! I mean, she is quite satisfied with her Techmarine and 'just asking' if there isn't any possibility to play a female character, since she accepts that Space Marines are not female.

So I thought about the Adeptus Sororitas ... but when I look at the money alone.

So, would it be possible at all or not?

Cheers,

TechVoid.

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Good question!

I'm wondering how you could tie her in to the team?

Perhaps on loan from the sororitas due to the high amount of heretics and chaos forces the deathwatch is getting caught up with in the reach when Xenos are the Watchs usual focus. A liason, maybe even a bit of a spy?

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First, if you're going to have players as Battle Sisters in a Deathwatch level game, I would recommend using the Blood of Martyrs variant. They are a bit more.... combative, which is helpful for staying alive in DW, and the faith talents in BoM are pretty powerful (enough to let the "weaker" Battle Sister still stand out compared to the astartes). Also, the BoM Sisters have a more "Deathwatch-like" item acquisition system (they don't use thrones in Dark Heresy), instead starting with power armour and a bolter.

Also, the BoM Battle Sister leads into the http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/dark-heresy/pdf/support/heresy-begets-retribution-low-res.pdf, which they will need to be played in DW anyway. You might want to get a copy of Ascension if you don't have one already, it explains how DH characters break the 15000xp ceiling and get into the DW level of experience.

Really, a Battle Sister using the Palatine ascension class can stand on her own in a DW game (but the theme will need to shift to a bit more investigative/intrigue based, rather than the "drop pod in, kill em all, and let the Emperor sort em out" that can quite easily be done in DW). I might recommend using a more "skittering horror on the edge of the mind" theme.

As far as the why of a Battle Sister working with the Deathwatch, well, first, it would be important to say, that unless you are trying to depict the strangest and most extreme of circumstances (e.g. mary sueing/god RPing with this character), the Battle Sister should NOT be a member of the Deathwatch. The best mechanic as to why they are working with a group of Astartes in the Deathwatch would be that the Sister is an agent of the inquisitor of the Ordo Xenos, or possibly even an inquisitor herself. Now, some may pull the "well the Sororitas are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus" card, at which, my answer would be yes, obviously they are. As an organization. That is to say, a particular order of Battle Sisters may be called to aid the Ordo Hereticus, while on the other hand, individual Battle Sisters may be seconded to any Inquisitor in need of a Battle Sisters aid. Or, in some rare cases, if a Battle Sister is brought fully into membership of the Holy Ordos and becomes an inquisitor herself, it may entirely be possible for them to pursue the enemy from the Ordo Xenos. The point is, an individual Battle Sister is not obligated to only work with the Ordo Hereticus.

From this point, the only actual mechanic to worry about is gear. A GM could choose to either go with the Ascension acquisiton system, or the DW requisiton system. Either really would work. Requisiton might be a bit more difficult, as determining the renown requirements for gear might be a bit odd for a Battle Sister. Also, the requisition costs for some items may be way off (the table in the DW book doesn't do some items justice). On the other hand, the acquisition system in Ascension presents its own issues when used alongside Astartes, in that its a bit less of "gear up in the armoury," and more "use political resources to get what you need." Also, acquisitions can be a bit more long term/permenant, which may annoy the Astartes, who technically have to turn in their gear after a mission.

 

Anyway, hope this helps.

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I don't think the characters would have a problem with the Sister keeping the weapons from game to game but more the players, lol.  I had to threaten my players with corruption points when they tried to loot a commissar's plasma pistol while they were at initiate renown.  If they want to dishonor their chapter as well as thousands of years of Deathwatch Armory tradition to get a weapon permanently that they clearly don't deserve... then they should pay the price.  :)  

As for the sister idea, I could see someone temporarily playing an SOB if you were doing a multiadventure story arc involving heretics or maybe the invasion of a sacred planet... I don't see it as too fluff feasible as having the sister attached to Deathwatch more permanently though. If everyone in your group is fine with it then it doesn't matter what the fluff says.  If fluff is an issue for you and your players, I think the previous idea of making the character an inquisitor and FORMER sororitas might work better.  

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If you want to include a SoB in DW, you will have to pick up both Ascention and either Inquisitor's Handbook or Blood of Martyrs (preferably the latter). As others have pointed out, you will also have to come up with a rationale for her to be attached to a Deathwatch Kill Team. If you just need a female character, it might be more logical to make her an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor or Interrogator rather than a Sister, who is attached to the Kill Team as an advisor. Just be sure to give her equipment calculated to make the character survivable in DW (such as power armour supplemented with a refractor field to mimic a Space Marire's Unnatural Toughness).

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Sanguinary Priest said:

I don't think the characters would have a problem with the Sister keeping the weapons from game to game but more the players, lol.  I had to threaten my players with corruption points when they tried to loot a commissar's plasma pistol while they were at initiate renown.  If they want to dishonor their chapter as well as thousands of years of Deathwatch Armory tradition to get a weapon permanently that they clearly don't deserve... then they should pay the price.  :) 

 

I have to take some issue with this, good Sir.

Awarding Corruption Points for something that has nothing to do with The Warp or Chaos Taint at all? Poor form.

Hit them where it hurts: Renown. They get docked renown for not honoring the Traditions of the Astartes and are noted to be greedy individuals that do not exemplify the Astartes That, and if their Watch Captain ever sees them with that kind of gear and using it in preference to everything else, watch them get assigned a mission to complete with just Scout weapons and Gear and still expected to perform normal missions...and that's if the Captain's being magnanimous.

 

Leave CPs with the Chaos, where it belongs.

 

As to the OT: BoM Ascended should handle everything nicely. I would likely keep their equipment requisitioning with that game's, though. Just make sure she doesn't count towards the Astartes' Requisition Pool

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Buliwyf Hagnarsson said:

As to the OT: BoM Ascended should handle everything nicely. I would likely keep their equipment requisitioning with that game's, though. Just make sure she doesn't count towards the Astartes' Requisition Pool

Well, remember, each individual marine has their own requisition pool, which they may pool when acquiring gear. They are not forced to share though.

 

Also, yes, CP is innapropriate in punishing the looting of random weapons. Personally, I would say7 the easiest way to rule for them to not take is simply say the weapon is too small. That grip and form factor is such, that if a marine would to hold it, their very hand would block critical heating vents, and likely cause and overheat. Also, as a non-Astartes weapon, it would be particularly weak (their bolt pistol should be nearly as effective). Next, since it was looted, it clearly could be damaged, and is that a risk to take with plasma weapons? It could be out of ammo, with no plasma flasks nearby. If they try to requisition ammo later, they would just get a strange look, as yes, they don't need it.

Certain chapter dispositions would also frown on taking a weapon from an honourable servant of the Munitorium. Also, "looting" isn't really in the spirit of Deathwatch; the system is built such that the players don't need to concern themselves with loot beyond gathering intel about the enemy.

Back to the topic though, I do also disagree with Sanguinary Priest on the topic of how long term a Battle Sister may operate with a group. If the character isa throne agent of an Ordo Xenos inquisitor, then it would make sense that she could be attached to a Deathwatch kill team for the purpose of representing the inquisitor's interests in the mission. It could be the inquisitor is advanced in years, and is generally an invalid in a fight. The inquisitor could be "unavailable" or concerned with greater heresies, but still need eyes on the ground with the kill-team. The only limitation such an agent would provide is the overall threat level the team is prepared to encounter. A kill team probably wouldn't take a "mere mortal" with them when drop-podding directly into the heart of a Tyranid swarm. Fortunately, a Battle Sister is right on the cusp of defying this term, so it should be no issue.

Also, for mechnaical purposes, consider the Cloak of St. Aspira in the Palatine class PDF, it gives Unnatural Toughness. And right there, the Battle Sister is on par with Astartes (given that faith talents are quite awesome).

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I can see your points about the CP in this off-topic case.  I was taking the word corruption a bit too literally in the dictionary sense as opposed to the RPG game definition which is, as Hagnarson pointed out, more specifically chaos based.  I just wanted to show the group how "normal" marines would be revulsed at the idea (similar to how the Salamanders reacted when their fellow Marines Malevolent tried to loot the admech ship) and CP seemed like the right choice at the time.... though I do like the idea of losing renown more.  Thanks for the tip.

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In My opinion the SM may take the weapon off any fallen foe or comrade even only to take it to savety.

He could as well use it untill he gets to the watch fortress the next time. There he gives it away at the armoury and next time he just gets his standard gear unless he requisitions the stuff.
And as always the GM has final say on what can or can't ne requisitioned.

But as civilian weapons are by far weaker than astartes versions I think you could well requesition a normal plasma pistol using the rules for req of DH gear in the core book.

If the SM gets -10 or what because the pistol is too small is again for the GM to decide.

 

In short: If a Spacemarine finds (loots) something it is not his property. He has to give it away after the mission. But if it was something important he could get a renown bonus for saving it.

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There is absolutely no problem dishing out corruption points to marines who are behaving badly...and this includes craven looting of inferior, unsanctified materiel from fallen allies or foes.  Corruption is corruption, no matter its supposed source....if your marines are so faithless that they resort to using inferior equipment, they are corrupting themselves....

Renown is a perfectly cromulent penalty as well, but it works only if they get caught by their superiors or if their fellow kill team members rat them out.  The beauty of corruption is that it clings to the perpetrators of bad deeds even when they get away with their dastardliness.  Corruption reflects the staining and warping of the marine's soul; and looting is a stain, brothers, make no mistake....

And, back on topic, it seems to me that a sister of battle would be a fine bodyguard for an inquisitor, or said inquisitor's eyes and ears, and thereby work with the Deathwatch.  Alongside, of course, as she is not of the gene-seed and cannot technically join a chapter save as an ally.  But it would be my guess that she'd be more of an Inquisitorial agent than a part of the Watch per se.

 

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That gives me ideas.

How about a sister of battle with the background that gives her witches sight (don't recall the name.) who is more or less thrown out of her cloister and joins the inquisition. 
There she fulfills some heroic deeds and some time later her inquisitor puts her with the deathwatch.

With the right equipment (which the inquisitor should be able to supply) she is nearly on par with the battlebrother's survivability. She does less damage but makes up for that with much better (and more) skills.

That way she still can do the stuff a sororita can do but is 100% loyal to her inquisitor.

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Are Corruption Points "Dark Side Points", now? Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought CPs were supposed to be the result of being exposed to things that people weren't meant to be exposed to, like the baleful energies of the Warp, or maybe the tainted relics of past civilizations, and not so much "oh, you were a ****** again" points. In things that aren't DW, they lead to malignancy, and eventually bad mutations. I can't accept that you could get writhing tentacles for punting a Commissar, and stealing his plasma pistol, even if it were the right size for your Ork-sized, gauntleted hand to hold. One should find better ways to reflect/represent that your characters were dicks. If you have this little (to you) gun, your superiors will wonder why, and they won't give you recharges for it, since you don't have it, or shouldn't, at least. If it becomes a problem, then you could even get Enemy (Imperial Guard), or something, and have difficulty dealing with such individuals later on. It might not seem like much, with Space Marines being all-powerful, and most Guardsmen never being likely to even see one, but that doesn't mean that, if slighted, the Guard can't act against you. A few hordes of them could put a wrinkle in your day, and if they will fire back at Chaos, they'll fire back at you, too, if ordered to. Some heavy bolters behind a wave of infantry, or the weapons on any tank, will make even Space Marines think twice (I hope).

This is all a bit beside the point, though, as I would hope most Space Marines are above such childish antics as "the DW won't let me carry a _____, so I'm going to take one from out on the field." That's sort of up there with an Ascension group saying "well, a Crusader gets to start game with a best quality Power Sword, while a full Inquisitor doesn't. So, we're going to build our group, and then, since we can't influence-pull a bq power sword (Inf -50 to -70, depending on how long he wants it for), he'll order his bodyguard to trade, and get it that way." Space Marines have a pseudo-spiritual connection to their weapons, and wouldn't likely use anyone else's, and it's doubtful they'd loot beyond ammo, if a fallen Battle Brother had similar weapon specs. If they did, kick them in the Renown, so that they can't get better stuff from the DW later, and maybe give out some Enemy talents, if they seem to like losing friends among their perceived lessers.

 

On to the Battle Sister. I rather like the idea of such a character, if it can be well explained. Death Watch is probably the best example of difficulty with those girl gamers in your group, and no female Space Marines. Perhaps she is the only survivor in a battle the Kill Team broke up. I do more prefer the idea of her being with, or just being an Inquisitor, though even they might not spend too much time among the DW they manage. On a lesser thought, you might also want to consider having a person related to some of the people who serve Space Marines. Nothing says some of them couldn't have some very interesting skills at their disposal, and with Ascension-esque advancement, they could reach the level necessary to stand with the Kill Team, without the religious zelousness some might not wish to play, or wish to play with. Space Marines don't worship the Emperor, so having a character who expects such blind obedience might not sit well. I know that they are kind of female Space Marines, more or less, but they rarely have a wide array of character responses, and they can't really half-ass that training, even later. Having any kind of female OX Inquisitor, however, could be cool, and give the group some access to interesting stuff, like more knowledge of situations, as well as a character who can fill certain roles that the Space Marines didn't. They could be escorting her on her forays into Xenos cults, or xenos incursions. It could also be a wonderful get out card if she has OOG obligations that magically pop up, where she returns to the Ordo Xenos, and comes back to the party the next time she needs them.

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My approach to this to appease one of my female gamers was to have her be from the Ecclesiarchy rather than the Ordos Militant of the Hereticus in the inquisition. As they essentially have the order split in two I opted to go for her character to be from the sub-sect of the "Order of the Bloody Rose" which is a combat sect seeking out heretics and putting down uprisings.

The campaign I have written deals with the rise of the Necrons and the xenos cults that rise out of seeing them come to power when they begin to consume the life on various worlds when their tombs awaken. So she joined the Deathwatch team as they begin to investigate the new xenos threat and the associated cults.

Also the statement that was made before that Space Marines don't worship the Emperor isn't accurate. That really is a chapter to chapter basis. Ultramarines worship Ultramar, While the Silver Skulls worship the emperor (the whole point is their Psyker's and Librarians are supposedly getting guidance from the Emperor through the warp, and they become both a religious figure as well as chapter librarian with the titles of Prognosticators.) Others have Hero worship to individual marines who have excelled in battle at one point or another. At the very least everyone revers the Emperor as the origin of their kind.

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venkelos said:

Are Corruption Points "Dark Side Points", now? Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought CPs were supposed to be the result of being exposed to things that people weren't meant to be exposed to, like the baleful energies of the Warp, or maybe the tainted relics of past civilizations, and not so much "oh, you were a ****** again" points. In things that aren't DW, they lead to malignancy, and eventually bad mutations. I can't accept that you could get writhing tentacles for punting a Commissar, and stealing his plasma pistol, even if it were the right size for your Ork-sized, gauntleted hand to hold. One should find better ways to reflect/represent that your characters were dicks.

I'd use smaaaall quantities of Insanity Points - ya know, for doing crazy things. Bad crazy, not good crazy, like the punting a Commissar example. :P

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yes, corruption = dark side, if that's how you prefer to think of things.  Any manifestation of faithlessness in the Emprah is Corruption, brothers!  Space marines are not meant to expose themselves to such petty inanities like lootin' cool equipment...hell, even using a xenos weapon in the heat of the moment to secure victory would require weeks of ablutions and prayers and penitence out the yin-yang.

So, yes, corruption in wh40k is equivalent to dsp in SW; at least so far as the Angels of Death are concerned.

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