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Maelflux

Is combat "less lethal" ?

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I really like the new rules from BC regarding combat (swift/lightning attack, and + on single/- on multiple attacks). But we have not started using them yet, and I wonder if combat will suddenly be less lethal and have a lot more rounds with attacks being dodged and parried?

I am basing this on most attacks will now have be at WS/BS or less, while defensive actions will be at up to +30 (or +40 even with defensive qualities, which can bring Parry/dodge close to 100%).

I just wanted to hear if anyone had experiences with this for good or worse already? :)

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Combat is extremely dangerous with the new Critical Rules... enough lucky street punks with a las-pistol or well thrown half-brick will wreck your **** long enough for them to figure out how to do something more dastardly to the semi-concious/stunned man in big armour.

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Maelflux said:

I really like the new rules from BC regarding combat (swift/lightning attack, and + on single/- on multiple attacks). But we have not started using them yet, and I wonder if combat will suddenly be less lethal and have a lot more rounds with attacks being dodged and parried?

I am basing this on most attacks will now have be at WS/BS or less, while defensive actions will be at up to +30 (or +40 even with defensive qualities, which can bring Parry/dodge close to 100%).

I just wanted to hear if anyone had experiences with this for good or worse already? :)

How do you figure that? I've only just begun to assimilate the combat rules but to me it seems easier to pick up positive modifiers with the tweaked rules.

Standard attack + half aim + short range = +30

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MKX said:

Combat is extremely dangerous with the new Critical Rules... enough lucky street punks with a las-pistol or well thrown half-brick will wreck your **** long enough for them to figure out how to do something more dastardly to the semi-concious/stunned man in big armour.

Ah those we did not try yet either and I had forgotten them right now (doh), but the old system with extra damage seemed dangerous enough as well. But this change I am really looking forward to!

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bladerunner_35 said:

Maelflux said:

 

I really like the new rules from BC regarding combat (swift/lightning attack, and + on single/- on multiple attacks). But we have not started using them yet, and I wonder if combat will suddenly be less lethal and have a lot more rounds with attacks being dodged and parried?

I am basing this on most attacks will now have be at WS/BS or less, while defensive actions will be at up to +30 (or +40 even with defensive qualities, which can bring Parry/dodge close to 100%).

I just wanted to hear if anyone had experiences with this for good or worse already? :)

 

 

How do you figure that? I've only just begun to assimilate the combat rules but to me it seems easier to pick up positive modifiers with the tweaked rules.

Standard attack + half aim + short range = +30

Well, the issue here is that single attacks are not opposed. So with a standard attack it does not really matter how well you roll, if the other person can just avoid it. And a good agility and +30 dodge can make that happen most of the time.

IF you start using multiple attacks that is opposed, you now have a lower hit chance than before (full auto+short range = +30 in the old days, which is now +10 with an aim thrown in), and you have a higher possible dodge with +30 max instead of +20.

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MKX said:

Combat is extremely dangerous with the new Critical Rules... enough lucky street punks with a las-pistol or well thrown half-brick will wreck your **** long enough for them to figure out how to do something more dastardly to the semi-concious/stunned man in big armour.

Pretty sure you actually have to do damage after soak for criticals to apply, like the extra damage on force weapons. It isn't likely that las pistols and bricks will even harm someone in power armor, much less a space marine. It is a funny example though.

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DJSunhammer said:

 

Pretty sure you actually have to do damage after soak for criticals to apply, like the extra damage on force weapons. It isn't likely that las pistols and bricks will even harm someone in power armor, much less a space marine. It is a funny example though.

Yes that, although if it doesn't do any critical damage it still does one point of damage that can't be reduced. So you will have to hit a Champion about 18 times with Zealous Hatred to bring him down if you're armed with bricks.

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We are using opposed ws/bs test even to single shot/hit and it's pretty good.

 

As for lethality let's say that me and my mates spend in two-three sessions 70 points of infamy to live (3 players)

 

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70 points in 3 sessions?  I think your tactics are lacking.  We've had one character drop in 5 sessions, and that was on a character the GM had designed as a party-killer.  Of course, we've also had our main psyker hit 100 corruption, so he's gone, too.

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It seems there is only one extra Reaction available through Step Aside (no Wall of Steel), and it's tier 3 Unaligned so 750 xp. This should increase mortalityrates in melee.

Also: Gang up. Your hardest hitting fighters should have the lowest initiative so the target has spent its two reactions when it's time for them to strike. (it's one of the stupid effects of this initiative system...) Also: Double Team all around gives +30% to hit for a measly 250xp/char. There is no excuse to miss then :-)

All in all, it seems the combat system has been adjusted a bit so shooting is not quite as overpowered as it was in DH. It's a good thing IMHO.

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Well, with the removal of multiple attack rolls (barring twin weapon wielder) with the change to Swift Attack and Lightning Attack there is less need for multiple reactions. Multiple attacks and multiple reactions sort of worked in escalation with each other (in Dark Heresy at least... FFG seem to have forgotten this when doing Deathwatch). Now that you will at most get two attack rolls from the same attacker you don't need 3 reactions... and you will have exactly the same number of reactions against ranged weapons as in the past (as you could only ever get two dodges). I don't see that being a game changer much.

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Good point Borithan. I'd managed to miss that (very reasonable) change to swift/lightning attack. *facepalms myself* I guess that means ranged damage is still way ahead in the game.

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