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Minions - worthy or useless

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Drace said:

Morangias said:

 

The thing that irks me the most, though, is how I feel stupid for wanting to have a renegade guardsman as my minion when I could have taken a much more efficient gun servitor with Machine, Auto-Stabilized, Unnatural Toughness and Unnatural Ballistic Skill. Perhaps Flyer as well. It'd be nice to be able to cash in Traits for extra Talents, Skills or Characteristic Points. I know there's this sidebar telling me to just wing it in such cases, but I don't like winging it when they could have provided rules instead.

 

 

 

You could still take the renegade guardsman, he just happens to have extensive bone-bracing (auto-stabilized), demon-flesh and machine-gibbins added to him, and his skin and eyesight have been mutated by chaos gifts.  Still the same character, just with the traits added in and making sense.

It's not really the same character when one is an ordinary guy who just had a falling out with the Imperium and the other is a mutated techno-freak hunted by the said Imperium for looks alone.

 

 

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Lecram said:

So what can you get out of a Lesser Minion?  I'm starting a new game with a social-focused Apostate who's highest combat trait is the ability to dodge.  Can I even get a combat/defense oriented Lesser minion, or am I looking at more of a servo-skull with a bunch of knowledge skills I don't have?

 

It seems to me like there are really two options for a useful Lesser Minion.  One is to have a very focussed minion that does a couple of specific things the character can't do.  For example, my CSM character is making a minion (familiar) that specializes in sneaking and spying, because it's hard to spy on someone in power armor.  A small size, high agility and perception, and the Heightened Senses talent should make him a decent spy/scout/sneak thief.  If you wanted something combat oriented, you could probably build an ok combat servitor or enthralled feral barbarian.  Give them WS and some Strenght/Toughness, along with Frenzy, Berserk Charge, Double Team, and Brutal Charge.  You can even add a flamer or hand flamer for a ranged attack that doesn't require dumping any points into BS (make sure to get the appropriate training talent).  Alternatively, dump WS for BS, dump S/T for AG/Per, pick up Stealth and give them a Long-Las (maybe add Ammo Glutton so you can pick up a Red Dot sight) and you can have your own pocket sniper to take out the trouble makers while you whip up the crowd.  Neither of these will be super effective, but they ought to at least have an effect, they're expendable because you can replace them, and you can only get so much for a Lesser Minion (also note you can always "trade in" the talent and pick up Minion for only 250 xp once you meet the prereqs).  If you want a minion to take a hit for you, you'll need the Unholy Devotion talent.

Another example of this would be the one you mentioned, a servo-skull full of knowledge skills, and maybe Tech Use or Security (the Total Recall talent could come in handy here, as could a multi-key).

The other way to go is to have some sort of assistant.  Per the Assistance rules on page 38, your assistant doesn't need to be particularly good at a task to assist you, they just need to be trained in the skill.  You get an effective +10 bonus, and an extra degree of success if you succeed.  Your minion could be a "crowd plant" that moves among the people you're working with, cheering at appropriate times, or adds clever points and distracting repartee to the conversation you're having with the official you're trying to sway.  Give them skills like Charm, Deceive, and Intimidate, and maybe some utility talents like Mimic or Unremarkable.  Don't forget you can trade in the weapon or armor for something like an auspex or vox caster.  Depending on your party, an assistant can be a boon to other players as well (your Heretek may love you if your minion is always giving him a +10 to Tech Use, and you would get to have someone loyal to you double-check on what they're doing).  If your minion has a high Perception, don't neglect Heightened Senses and Awareness, because another set of rolls to spot that ambush is never a bad thing.

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Question, can minions have minions? By RAW I don't remember any restrictions on talents tey can get (I may be wrong, I don't have the book right now). By common sense depends on the minion. Greater minion demagoge or adept could possibly have 1-2 servo-skulls, Even if they could only have minions of lover levels than they are, it'll be too easy to create your own personal army.



Found it. They cannot. Case closed. Sorry.

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borithan said:

The Psyker Trait is only available for Minions (so no lesser Minions). Also the Psy Rating talent is rank 3, so only Greater minions can have it. Minions of Chaos with psyker are there solely for Psyniscience. As psychic powers are talents they will also be buying their psy rating and their pschic powers from the same pool (11... so they can be ok. Maximum Psy rating of 4 if willpower is maxed out, and so they could have 7 choices of psychic powers, as long as they meet the prerequisates).



Actually, since they can get Unnatural Characteristics, which includes Willpower, the maximum psy rating you can get is 8, unless you really splurge on traits better spent elsewhere, in which case you could push it further. 'Course this requires you to spend 8 of it's talents just getting said rating, leaving you able to buy a maximum of 3 powers. A more reasonable design would be psy rating 6 and maybe the Daemonic trait. Voila, chaos familiar for your psyker! Especially useful for Chaos Sorcerers, who can get one, get it a bunch of free to sustain buffer powers like warptime and telekinetic shield then have it use profane symbols to more or less permabuff them onto you.

Now you're a horrible melee monstrosity with Agility out the butt, and you're still running your full psy rating as you doombolt your way across the battlefield. Effective but not game-breakingly nasty. ETHICAL!

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ShadowRay said:

Question, can minions have minions? By RAW I don't remember any restrictions on talents tey can get (I may be wrong, I don't have the book right now). By common sense depends on the minion. Greater minion demagoge or adept could possibly have 1-2 servo-skulls, Even if they could only have minions of lover levels than they are, it'll be too easy to create your own personal army.



Found it. They cannot. Case closed. Sorry.

Where does it say they cant have minions? I thought greater minions could, which makes sense, at that rank, you might have 1-2 hanger ons, but not too many cuz it takes away from your talent pool.

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All I can find at the moment is the restrictions on talents.  So a greater minion with Fel 40 could have lesser minions.

Why did I just have a mental image of a scary clown with his little marionette that can walk and talk on it's own...

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Pg 136, under Talents. Minions can not, unless the GM says otherwise, take minions talents.

And the reason for this is rather obvious. Since Minions don't pay Xp for talents, a Greater minion could take Greater Minion 11 times. They then all do the same. And all of THOSE minions do it too. Now all those minions, which number over a 1000, take whatever talents they want. Voila. For 750 xp, your heretic now has enough Chaos Space Marines to outnumber the Ultramarines. Also, if any die, they get replaced around next session.And they're infallibly loyal.

Granted, they need to a shitload of fellowship to really buy quite that many followers each, but even if you decrease it all you need is a few more steps of minions buying minions to reach increasingly large numbers of superior mooks.

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Thanks for the refrence Rev!

I like how it leaves it up to GM choice, so if a player comes up with a cool concept like an insane Ork Runtheard with some Snotlings, a Nurgling wrangler, a divination based witch with her toad familiar or my afformentioned scary clown with living marionette it can still be allowed. 

One thing to remember tho, those minions are loyal to your minion, not to you... ;)

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Reverend mort said:

Pg 136, under Talents. Minions can not, unless the GM says otherwise, take minions talents.

And the reason for this is rather obvious. Since Minions don't pay Xp for talents, a Greater minion could take Greater Minion 11 times. They then all do the same. And all of THOSE minions do it too. Now all those minions, which number over a 1000, take whatever talents they want. Voila. For 750 xp, your heretic now has enough Chaos Space Marines to outnumber the Ultramarines. Also, if any die, they get replaced around next session.And they're infallibly loyal.

Granted, they need to a shitload of fellowship to really buy quite that many followers each, but even if you decrease it all you need is a few more steps of minions buying minions to reach increasingly large numbers of superior mooks.

Well, to have lesser minions, you need to have Fel 40 (which only greater minons can reach), for any other kind of better minion, you need infamy, which no minion can ever have. The only way a minion can get minions is to be tier 3 (greater minion), boost fel to max and give up several useful talents. I thought the way it worked like that was quite good. If you are that powerful, you might have a weak hangeron, didnt really seem OP. And if you got 5+ minions for a greater one, you could fluff it as a commander with his squad, remember, lesser minions are WEAK and you are giving up access to tier 3 talents for them and boosting up the fellowship score to control more than four with unnatural fellowship. So it didnt seem that bad to me for that to be allowed.

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Cymbel said:

 

Well, to have lesser minions, you need to have Fel 40 (which only greater minons can reach)

Lesser minions only need Fel 35. While I do agree that it makes since for a Greater minion to have some hanger ons, it just seems to me that it could cause someone to have just too many minions.

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