Card texts??

[deadsong2 3]

Hi again!

I was reading faq about the ccg and lcg and had some confusions about some of the card texts. So now some more wiser players could give me just answers to these questions, how to handle some situations

1. Across Dimensions: Play only if every character you control has the Yog-Sothoth faction.
Action: Until the end of the phase, each Yog-Sothoth character gains X icons, where X is the number of Yog-Sothoth characters in play.

-> If I have 3 Yog-Sothoth characters and 1 neutral character in my play area, could that card be used? In this theory, neutral is not a faction, but in that case it still is a character in the play, but could it just be ignored in this case?

2. If card would say: "Destroy all Day cards. Then draw 2 cards."

-> Could that card be just used, if there would not be any Day cards in play? Or does it really have to have atleast 1 Day card in play, to be used? In this case that if X (day card) = 0, is it valid?

3. Things in the Ground: Action: Exhaust Things in the Ground to discard the top 2 cards of each player's deck. Any characters that would be discarded by this effect are instead put into play insane.

-> I think I read from the faq that this cards would ignore terror icons and willpower. Does it really work that way? And if so, would it also all characters in this way come into play insane, if the cards would say "put into play"? So what about the wording "enter play"? Does it that way also make them insane, even if they would have terror or willpower?

[TheProfessor 4]

Deadsong said:

1. Across Dimensions: Play only if every character you control has the Yog-Sothoth faction.

Action: Until the end of the phase, each Yog-Sothoth character gains X icons, where X is the number of Yog-Sothoth characters in play.

-> If I have 3 Yog-Sothoth characters and 1 neutral character in my play area, could that card be used? In this theory, neutral is not a faction, but in that case it still is a character in the play, but could it just be ignored in this case?

2. If card would say: "Destroy all Day cards. Then draw 2 cards."

-> Could that card be just used, if there would not be any Day cards in play? Or does it really have to have atleast 1 Day card in play, to be used? In this case that if X (day card) = 0, is it valid?

3. Things in the Ground: Action: Exhaust Things in the Ground to discard the top 2 cards of each player's deck. Any characters that would be discarded by this effect are instead put into play insane.

-> I think I read from the faq that this cards would ignore terror icons and willpower. Does it really work that way? And if so, would it also all characters in this way come into play insane, if the cards would say "put into play"? So what about the wording "enter play"? Does it that way also make them insane, even if they would have terror or willpower?

1.  A neutral character has no faction, so there would be 1 character you contral that does NOT have the Yog faction, so you could not play Across Dimensions.

2.  I'm not sure on this, but it seems to be going in the direction of "Yes" - you can satisfy "Destroy all Day cards" if there are 0 Day cards to start.  I think the logic is something along the lines of you did destroy all 0 cards.

3.  Things in the Ground ignores Willpower and Terror because the characters start as insane, so they have no text boxes and they have no icons.  So no "enter play" abilities, and no protection from Insanity.

 

[jhaelen 98]

TheProfessor said:

2.  I'm not sure on this, but it seems to be going in the direction of "Yes" - you can satisfy "Destroy all Day cards" if there are 0 Day cards to start.  I think the logic is something along the lines of you did destroy all 0 cards.

I agree about 1) and 3) but I'm unsure about this one, because of the following FAQ entry:

If a card uses the word “then,” then the
preceding effect must have been resolved
successfully before the subsequent
dependent effect can be resolved.

I think if you didn't actually destroy any Day cards, you may not draw two cards. Destroying zero cards doesn't count as 'successfully resolved', imho.

The FAQ uses 'Sacrifical Offerings' as an example and explains, that if no character is actually wounded by the first part of the effect, the second part of the effect (starting with 'Then') does not resolve.

[deadsong2 3]

I also founded 1) to be judged as The Prof said there, but wanted to have clarification. It could help me little bit with the similiar cases hopefully. 3) was just to found out the wording, how it could work from now on.

2) is little bit confusing to me too. I could also say that it could work both ways. If there are no Day-cards in play, you could play the card but it could not satisfy the second part of the card (after "Then"). Mostly this is just some old ccg-card where is this text, but if I would like to play it with new lcg cards, I just wanted to be sure how it could work. Like jhaelen says there, if there are no Day cards (x = 0), then I could have not destroyed anything. But if the rule would be irrelevant about this case, then I could have destroyed "any" Day-cards to have it to be done, then I could draw 2 cards. Have to think this little bit more, I think...?

[Penfold3 0]

 How many Day cards in play? Did you destroy that many? Yes? Then draw 2 cards.

If there are 3 and you destroy 3 you get to draw. Why would putting 0 in those places where 3 is end up with a different result?

[TheProfessor 4]

Penfold said:

 How many Day cards in play? Did you destroy that many? Yes? Then draw 2 cards.

If there are 3 and you destroy 3 you get to draw. Why would putting 0 in those places where 3 is end up with a different result?

Yes and no.  From the game rules point of view, can you destroy 0 things?  This can be answered as "No, you didn't actually destroy anything because there was nothing to destroy" or "Yes - see there are none left, so I destroyed them all."

 

[jhaelen 98]

Penfold said:

 How many Day cards in play? Did you destroy that many? Yes? Then draw 2 cards.

If there are 3 and you destroy 3 you get to draw. Why would putting 0 in those places where 3 is end up with a different result?

Well, if I destroyed zero cards, did I destroy a card?

If the answer was yes, then I would be able to trigger an effect that requires me to destroy a card, e.g. to return the Cats of Ulthar to mxy hand:

Action: Pay 1 to destroy 1 Zoog card in play. Then, return The Cats of Ulthar to your hand.

This interpretation is obviously wrong. But I think I see the difference now: If no Zoog are in play, I didn't destroy 1 Zoog, but I did destroy all Zoog in play!

If Cats of Ulthar said instead:

Action: Pay 1 to destroy all Zoog cards in play. Then, return The Cats of Ulthar to your hand.

Now, if no Zoog cards are in play, I could still trigger the action to return the Cats to my hand, right?

 

This is actually the same situation as my question about Aziz Chatuluka: You have to drain all undrained domains which is satisfied if no domains are undrained. So it's only cards with a condition referring to all instances of something that work like that.

 

[Penfold3 0]

 Precisely. If the game is looking for a set number of a thing to be achieved you must reach that set number. IF the game is looking to ensure that a variable number has been achieved then as long as their variable is met you have achieved the condition. All would be every number of a thing including zero.

[dboeren1 294]

I agree w/ Penfold here.  Destroying zero things is destroying all of them if that's all there are.

If this were not so, just about all the Night/Day cards would be unplayable most of the time along with Cats of Ulthar.  I don't believe that is the designer's intent.

Actually, scratch that.  I think ALL the Night/Day cards would be unplayable ALL the time.  It can't be Night or Day until you successfully play one, and under that interpretation you can't play one until someone had already made it Night or Day by playing a previous card (which would have failed due to lack of an even earlier card).  There probably are ways to get one into play sidestepping this requirement but by and large the whole mechanic would be busted.

[TheProfessor 4]

 Did anyone send a rules question in on this topic?

 

[deadsong2 3]

I think I would also agree with dboeren. We do have "Day of the Deep Ones"-card in LCG, which says:

Action: Sacrifice one Deep One character to destroy all Day cards in play. Then, attach Day of the Deep Ones to a Deep One character. Counts as an Attachment Support card with the text: "Night. It is Night."

At this case you also destroy all Day cards in play. How many would really play this card, when you have to sacrifice you Deep One to destroy zero Day cards without any bonus effect from it?? And if the "Then" would only be possible to trigger by destroying atleast one Day-card?? I think with this case that destroying zero Day-cards in play, would be acceptable. Unless something in the Rules say that its only possible to use, if there are something to destroy? But in this case, would there be some other cards also, that would be only possible to use, with probiate targets in play??

[TheProfessor 4]

 Damon confirmed that you can destroy 0 things and satisfy the "destroy all" requirement.

 

[TheProfessor 4]

 Damon confirmed that you can destroy 0 things and satisfy the "destroy all" requirement.  He said if a number was there, you must hit that number, but the use of "all" basically means make sure nothing is left.

 

[deadsong2 3]

Confirmed now

Thanx Prof again!