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ppsantos

Powerful cards destroying long-term game balance?

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just give it time.. the cards will come but they will space them out along adventure packs.. I doubt we will see a new major expantion for a while.... still a few years form now the pool will be huge..

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mr.thomasschmidt said:

I heard the rumors as well that there will be a level 3, 5 and 7 quest. But dissagreeing with glaurung I can only say "YAY" Nice to get a level 3 quest. I will not go as far as to "command" and bitching about the level 5 and 7 quest even if I could say:

"WHAT!!!! Level 5 and 7?!?!?? COME ON GUYS. GIVE US A BREAK. Some of us is still having trouble with the Anduin and then you make a new level 7 quest again????  WHATS THE MATTER WITH YOU????Please just stay with the level 3,4 and 5. PLEASE!!!!!! You are making this game WAY TOO difficult!!!!!!!" and so on. But I don't. Because then somebody having it easy with the game would maybe get irritated and fear that I'd ruin the future of the game for him.  

So when it's a level 3 quest, GREAT! When it's a 5 also GREAT and even if it'll be a level 12 someday which I won't be able to beat in the near future ALSO GREAT! Some cards are only great for multiplayer games, GREAT, some best in solo eaqually GREAT.

I was hoping the 3 quests would have DLs easy (2), medium (4 or 5) and hard (7).  For a major expansion like Khazad, I think it would be nice to have a quest that's slightly harder than Core Set's introductory scenario Passage Through Mirkwood.  We have the APs with DLs 4-7, but only 1quest (PTM) on the easy level.  Not all players want killer scenarios all the time.

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I agree with the idea that as long as they provide us with a variety of challenges in both difficulty and by introducing new tricks/mechanics,  we will always have a way to enjoy the game. After all, figuring out what cards to use in a quest is half the fun for me. And actually, having more cards in my library can eventually become an obstacle, hiding the one or two best cards for the job from my memory.

While I believe it is inevitable that the power creep will likely come over time, I think we have a lot of options for dealing with it. For starters, I like the idea some people have of playing with singleton decks - ones containing only 1 copy of each card. This is exactly the kind of thinking fans of MTG used to create a really popular variation of the game.

But perhaps a more exciting prospect, I think, is to follow through with the "Nightmare" mode and take on a series of quests in succession without changing up your deck (or healing damage, I believe). Like people stated earlier, many missions are good at exploiting the weaknesses of even your best deck. Force your party to take on 3 missions of the Mirkwood cycle in a row will definitely force you to face your weakness and pray that your friends can compensate. It also provides a great overall thematic experience.

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 well... still... even with the power creep - I find it hard to imagine that we are ever going to have an easy time with Dol Guldur, or Journey to Rhosghobel or Massing at Osgiliath... speaking solo strictly...

the older quests will automatically get easier!!! as we have more possibilities, but the quests stay the same, it will get easier... that's the problem with co-op, or ffg introduces a system where we can effectively try to build or own encounter deck... and challenge ourselves... of course, you can do that already... put in 4 trolls, 2 nazguls, 2 hill trolls, hummerhorns, necromancers reach, exhaustion, rockslide and all other nice cards we love so much... and you have a challenge :D ok, storywise strange, but...

you'll just never have as great a challenge as playing against a human being - ffg may prove me wrong though... waiting for the Deluxe AP... so far, I am very content with the content of this game... lots of combos to try... I just wish there was a way to magnify the intelligence of the evil side... this randomness of the encounter deck is VERY exciting when dealing shadow cards... but else... esp in Rhosghobel, it's just annoying :D

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ppsantos said:

mr.thomasschmidt said:

 

I heard the rumors as well that there will be a level 3, 5 and 7 quest. But dissagreeing with glaurung I can only say "YAY" Nice to get a level 3 quest. I will not go as far as to "command" and bitching about the level 5 and 7 quest even if I could say:

"WHAT!!!! Level 5 and 7?!?!?? COME ON GUYS. GIVE US A BREAK. Some of us is still having trouble with the Anduin and then you make a new level 7 quest again????  WHATS THE MATTER WITH YOU????Please just stay with the level 3,4 and 5. PLEASE!!!!!! You are making this game WAY TOO difficult!!!!!!!" and so on. But I don't. Because then somebody having it easy with the game would maybe get irritated and fear that I'd ruin the future of the game for him.  

So when it's a level 3 quest, GREAT! When it's a 5 also GREAT and even if it'll be a level 12 someday which I won't be able to beat in the near future ALSO GREAT! Some cards are only great for multiplayer games, GREAT, some best in solo eaqually GREAT.

 

 

I was hoping the 3 quests would have DLs easy (2), medium (4 or 5) and hard (7).  For a major expansion like Khazad, I think it would be nice to have a quest that's slightly harder than Core Set's introductory scenario Passage Through Mirkwood.  We have the APs with DLs 4-7, but only 1quest (PTM) on the easy level.  Not all players want killer scenarios all the time.

that the different between players how they understand the diffiucult of the quest. For me for example 6 and 7 For what we have for now (Carrock, Rhosgobel, Dol-Guldor) is ok. It is not Difficult al all in my opinion. Is Normal. Osgiliath is hard. So difficult 3 and 4 in opinion is just waste of time and money. Is same like With proff tournaments Magic deck play against stater preck. decks.We know already who will win (even if the proff deck will make a lot of mistake).

Still im sure the best solution is opportunity to change the difficult of any quest by special rules or mechanic.

 

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 I second The 2 x 200ish Card expansions. Plus 1 with 200ish Quist cards :P

Seriously though, FFG could just make a "cycle" of AP containing only quests and mayby releasing one every 2nd/3rd month. They could call them Quest Packs :) just 40 cards would be enough. That could be at least 10 quests.

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To all who think modifying the encounter decks is the way to go to provide a satisfying challenge: Nobody forbids you to start doing this right now. Why not put the Nazgul of Dol Guldur in one of the other quests, just for the extra difficulty? Or some of the trolls? I really start to get tired of people begging for higher difficulty. Because all in all the game has turned out mighty fine the way it is. But maybe I'm just too "casual" to understand this problem. Or maybe we have a very different approach towards this kind of cooperative game.

As someone said before: Give the game some time to grow, to develop. We're just at the very beginning. And anything's possible in the future and we'll probably see some power creep, no matter how carefully they try to balance the new cards. But my only concern is: Will it still be fun to play?

Just one more thing regarding difficulty: It's just numbers. I look at them and they mean nothing, because it depends on so many other things... I thought Conflict at the Carrock (7) was easier than Dol Guldur (also a difficulty 7) and also easier than A Journey to Rhosgobel (which is a 6 I think). So what does that say? 

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Untergeher said:

To all who think modifying the encounter decks is the way to go to provide a satisfying challenge: Nobody forbids you to start doing this right now. Why not put the Nazgul of Dol Guldur in one of the other quests, just for the extra difficulty? Or some of the trolls? I really start to get tired of people begging for higher difficulty. Because all in all the game has turned out mighty fine the way it is. But maybe I'm just too "casual" to understand this problem. Or maybe we have a very different approach towards this kind of cooperative game.

As someone said before: Give the game some time to grow, to develop. We're just at the very beginning. And anything's possible in the future and we'll probably see some power creep, no matter how carefully they try to balance the new cards. But my only concern is: Will it still be fun to play?

Just one more thing regarding difficulty: It's just numbers. I look at them and they mean nothing, because it depends on so many other things... I thought Conflict at the Carrock (7) was easier than Dol Guldur (also a difficulty 7) and also easier than A Journey to Rhosgobel (which is a 6 I think). So what does that say? 

You know i didn really understand thi system too. 7 or 6 or 4 sometimes there is no any sense.

And one more thing. Unbalanced really unbalanced player cards and heroes. for example. Take away Beravur and Gimly. The game will be much more hard.

Take away northern tracker and brand. Ups and game is not easy at all. So sometimes you need to just dont make some to powerful card too.FFG do many mistace from beginning. So will see what happen next.

Yes you right we can make some house rules but i want balanced game from beginning and for that i pay my money!!!! this is not my job!!! this is job of FFG.

Still i just want things better. And i really like this game.

 

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Numbers do not mean anything. Anduin (4) is harder solo compared to Carrock (7). So don't say that 3,5,7 are easy quests. This 3 can be more harder than 7 if it nails a weakness in your deck.

It's good you beat most of the decks, I also do. (with the exception of dol guldur and rhosobel). But I don't write so much about "need more difficult quests". What I want are more diverse quests, so every adventure feels unique. Rhosgobel is perfect example , difficulty just 6 but hard as hell for a deck with no healing apart from radagast.

Btw, I feel that tournaments are coming soon and they may change your strategy a lot.

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Untergeher said:

Just one more thing regarding difficulty: It's just numbers. I look at them and they mean nothing, because it depends on so many other things... I thought Conflict at the Carrock (7) was easier than Dol Guldur (also a difficulty 7) and also easier than A Journey to Rhosgobel (which is a 6 I think). So what does that say? 

Hell, I would almost put Carrock on level with Passage Through Mirkwood myself, 2-3 tops. Anduin and HFG both felt and were a lot, lot harder, constant struggles.

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Dam said:

Untergeher said:

 

Just one more thing regarding difficulty: It's just numbers. I look at them and they mean nothing, because it depends on so many other things... I thought Conflict at the Carrock (7) was easier than Dol Guldur (also a difficulty 7) and also easier than A Journey to Rhosgobel (which is a 6 I think). So what does that say? 

 

Hell, I would almost put Carrock on level with Passage Through Mirkwood myself, 2-3 tops. Anduin and HFG both felt and were a lot, lot harder, constant struggles.

Anduin was a big challenge for me and my partner before we started serious deckbuilding. This quest can go wrong pretty fast and can be very unforgiving! And HfG is can be a nightmare! So unpredictable. And I hate the Hunters and the Old Wives' Tales! The cards coming from the encounter deck can have disastrous effects...

So I totally understand where you're coming from!

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Power creep isn't something we need to worry about for a long time imo as this game is pretty awesome right now. But there are plenty of ways I think they'll be able to reign the game back in if they ever need to.

1. I think I read somewhere that they are prepared to ban a card if errata or clarification can't stop something from being completely abusive.

2. They could always implement set rotation once the card pool is large enough. Something like rotate out the core set in favor of a new one a few years down the line. Or, only cards from the last four adventure pack cycles can be used for 'tournament legal' decks, etc.

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Mattr0polis said:

Power creep isn't something we need to worry about for a long time imo as this game is pretty awesome right now. But there are plenty of ways I think they'll be able to reign the game back in if they ever need to.

1. I think I read somewhere that they are prepared to ban a card if errata or clarification can't stop something from being completely abusive.

2. They could always implement set rotation once the card pool is large enough. Something like rotate out the core set in favor of a new one a few years down the line. Or, only cards from the last four adventure pack cycles can be used for 'tournament legal' decks, etc.

1 In my opinion we need Errata for Beravur action : draw 2 cards limit 1 per turn. Tracker choose 1 location and 1 token on location NOT EVERY LOCATION is to powerful.

Ban B Brand this card really broken!!!!

2 About card rotation. I also think in LCG format you dont need that. I have enough of this in Magic.

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guciomir said:

Numbers do not mean anything. Anduin (4) is harder solo compared to Carrock (7). So don't say that 3,5,7 are easy quests. This 3 can be more harder than 7 if it nails a weakness in your deck.

It's good you beat most of the decks, I also do. (with the exception of dol guldur and rhosobel). But I don't write so much about "need more difficult quests". What I want are more diverse quests, so every adventure feels unique. Rhosgobel is perfect example , difficulty just 6 but hard as hell for a deck with no healing apart from radagast.

Btw, I feel that tournaments are coming soon and they may change your strategy a lot.

Yes i like it too. I mean idea to make quests really different from each other. Rhosgobel is good example. + FFG really dont use the quest cards themself.

Carrock have only 2 and Rhosgobel also last quest card is nothing. +they use only 1 side of the quest card (use both side only on the first card for setup).

Tournaments system i wait like a bird wait for spring.

 

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Glaurung said:

Mattr0polis said:

 

Power creep isn't something we need to worry about for a long time imo as this game is pretty awesome right now. But there are plenty of ways I think they'll be able to reign the game back in if they ever need to.

1. I think I read somewhere that they are prepared to ban a card if errata or clarification can't stop something from being completely abusive.

2. They could always implement set rotation once the card pool is large enough. Something like rotate out the core set in favor of a new one a few years down the line. Or, only cards from the last four adventure pack cycles can be used for 'tournament legal' decks, etc.

 

 

1 In my opinion we need Errata for Beravur action : draw 2 cards limit 1 per turn. Tracker choose 1 location and 1 token on location NOT EVERY LOCATION is to powerful.

Ban B Brand this card really broken!!!!

2 About card rotation. I also think in LCG format you dont need that. I have enough of this in Magic.

 

I disagree strongly with your suggestions regarding errata/bannings.  I believe Beravor and Burning Brand are powerful, but not broken.  Let's at least see how some organized play shakes out before we ban all the power cards.

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radiskull said:

Glaurung said:

 

Mattr0polis said:

 

Power creep isn't something we need to worry about for a long time imo as this game is pretty awesome right now. But there are plenty of ways I think they'll be able to reign the game back in if they ever need to.

1. I think I read somewhere that they are prepared to ban a card if errata or clarification can't stop something from being completely abusive.

2. They could always implement set rotation once the card pool is large enough. Something like rotate out the core set in favor of a new one a few years down the line. Or, only cards from the last four adventure pack cycles can be used for 'tournament legal' decks, etc.

 

 

1 In my opinion we need Errata for Beravur action : draw 2 cards limit 1 per turn. Tracker choose 1 location and 1 token on location NOT EVERY LOCATION is to powerful.

Ban B Brand this card really broken!!!!

2 About card rotation. I also think in LCG format you dont need that. I have enough of this in Magic.

 

 

 

I disagree strongly with your suggestions regarding errata/bannings.  I believe Beravor and Burning Brand are powerful, but not broken.  Let's at least see how some organized play shakes out before we ban all the power cards.

Yes you can be disagree or agree up to you. But when in the middle of the game i have lot of resources and half of the deck im my hand i wonna see what encounter deck can do against me............I have a lot of cards to cancel when revealed effect + b brand on my heroes. Now i need only attacment card :in quest phase dont reveal any card from encounter deck and game start to be so interesting and fun. Beravur is to powerful. And b brand is like permanent couner spell in magic. Every spell your opponent play counter it. If this cards is not broken what is is broken for you?????

Cose of Beravur and B brand this even Osgiliath is a problem only for 3 first round. 

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 I don't know about you guys: certainly, FFG could make the quests extremely harder - not only by raising the stats - there are enough nasty mechanics to kill a group of travellers... but do you think the big masses would buy this game? I know, some of us want a challenge, some of us don't even abide by the rules and make themselves an easy life... 

 

the problem is: in mtg, lotr decipher, etc you had an opponent - and you had the same cards (provided the money...) - so it was deckbuilding against deckbuilding and reacting to specific situations.... with an encounter deck, which DOES NOT change, you only have a limited range of options which you eventually find out and then you can win - but what would you rather have - scenarios, which can be done in a certain amount of time and tries, or totally unbeatable scenarios - you only have these two choices... there is no scenario which will ALWAYS be challenging...

at least, let us wait until the Deluxe AP, to see in which direction this game is headed... so far, I LOVE the player cards... and some scenarios are really fun! But of course somehow I can foresee that the very nature of this game could mean its own doom, if not properly handed...

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Vyron said:

 I don't know about you guys: certainly, FFG could make the quests extremely harder - not only by raising the stats - there are enough nasty mechanics to kill a group of travellers... but do you think the big masses would buy this game? I know, some of us want a challenge, some of us don't even abide by the rules and make themselves an easy life... 

 

the problem is: in mtg, lotr decipher, etc you had an opponent - and you had the same cards (provided the money...) - so it was deckbuilding against deckbuilding and reacting to specific situations.... with an encounter deck, which DOES NOT change, you only have a limited range of options which you eventually find out and then you can win - but what would you rather have - scenarios, which can be done in a certain amount of time and tries, or totally unbeatable scenarios - you only have these two choices... there is no scenario which will ALWAYS be challenging...

at least, let us wait until the Deluxe AP, to see in which direction this game is headed... so far, I LOVE the player cards... and some scenarios are really fun! But of course somehow I can foresee that the very nature of this game could mean its own doom, if not properly handed...

Yes i agree when you play against quests is not same when you play against real opponent. But still quest is quite ok and interesting. Shadow card mechanic is good same like your opponents can play some spell fomr his hand and you never know he will play or not.

But most of the problem is: encounter deck is not react on your power status. He play form beginning to the end with the same power, when players power is grow with every round. And is quite easy to change.

For example : make enemies strange +1 for each attachments or ally. Or discard ally from play and you have have more then 4 allies discard 2 allies from play and so on. Encounter card can get more effect with staging. Power of effect grow with progress and so on. There is so many ideas how to do that.And i my opinion they lazy to make quest much more interesting and attractive.

 FFG even with the card game text make so many mistake. So i will complain until they start to be make it more proff and better.

You right when Khazad-Dum go out then we can really understand where we going. And nightmare mode. We start this weekend.

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Glaurung said:

Cose of Beravur and B brand this even Osgiliath is a problem only for 3 first round. 

Even with Beravor, you still need UC on her and then constant use of her ability to fish out 2x Song of Wisdom + 3x Burning Brand and need 9 resources to pay for them. Combined with UC, that's 11 resources gone (4th turn), you've played 0 allies, 0 events, Beravor probably hasn't been questing or attacking/defending, so you have enemies engaged that even with BB attack for 3-4 vs for example 2 def on Beravor. Nor does BB help against undefended attacks.

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Sorry, but did I miss something? It hasn't been a year since the game came out and we haven't seen all of the adventure packs of the first cycle, but we're already talking about banning cards? Is this really happening? Seriously... come on!

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Untergeher said:

Sorry, but did I miss something? It hasn't been a year since the game came out and we haven't seen all of the adventure packs of the first cycle, but we're already talking about banning cards? Is this really happening? Seriously... come on!

Yep, I think you missed something: Look at who stated that opinion gui%C3%B1o.gif

You can safely assume no one else shares that opinion.

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Dam said:

Glaurung said:

 

Cose of Beravur and B brand this even Osgiliath is a problem only for 3 first round. 

 

 

Even with Beravor, you still need UC on her and then constant use of her ability to fish out 2x Song of Wisdom + 3x Burning Brand and need 9 resources to pay for them. Combined with UC, that's 11 resources gone (4th turn), you've played 0 allies, 0 events, Beravor probably hasn't been questing or attacking/defending, so you have enemies engaged that even with BB attack for 3-4 vs for example 2 def on Beravor. Nor does BB help against undefended attacks.

Hey you dont need do only this from beginning. do it slowly step by step. But when you done in the middle of the game  you can go smoke and drink tea.

I hate this feeling when game is still far from the end but you already understand you win cose you know encounter deck cannot do nothing.

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