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Kawarazu

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These are multiple questions that are unclear (to me at least).:

1. Can you choose to NOT move?
It would seem a bit obvious, but then there lies the question of just sitting at the entrance and healing

2. Is it heal one Sanity AND Stamina, or one Sanity OR Stamina.
If you look at the rule book, it's AND, and if you look at the card, it's OR. I like the card's interpretation better.

3a. Clue tokens: Does it allow you to reroll ONE or ALL, or ANY NUMBER or ALL?
It just says "any or all". The implication is any one die, or all the die, but this probably needs clarification.

3b.  Can I keep using clue tokens after another role to complete a task fails?  
I think this is yes, but I'm unsure. 

4. How the devil does assisting work? Does the person just act as another focus area?
If you read it, it just seems that any ally assisting acts as another focus area, but then it seems just a bit weak.  6 guys in ONE room still doesn't do **** in terms of having an advantage.  

5. Summoning monsters when there are no free monster slots just mean it fizzles, right?

6. Elder Signs don't get lost from being devoured, correct?

7. Can spells be played out of turn, and for other people?

8.  Can characters that affect rolls (such as Mandy Thompson, and Michael McGlen) outside of their turn?  

9.  If an Ancient One devours the investigator representing the player, that player is OUT for the rest of the game, correct?  He does not get reintroduced as another investigator, correct?  

These are all the small inconsistencies/questions I had during 3 playthroughs.  Thanks for answering!

EDIT:  I have another question.

10. When we use trophies at the trophy shop, they just go to the bottom of the deck, right?

 

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from how I read the rules and play....

1. yes

2. OR

3. "any" simplifies it to me, so if you roll your dice and get 2 things you need and have 3 dice that are not what you need you can choose to reroll those 3 misses.

3 b. yes is how i play it.

4. by "focusing" they mean holding a die result for you.  just like you yourself and hold one die result for use later on an adventure, so can another player who is at the same adventure.  but like you, they can only hold 1 die each.

5. NO.  it says in the rules what happens.  monster markers get added to the bottom of adventure cards if there are no slots for them out. you do get to pick which adventure though, and i would suggest not doing ones that have an arrow.

6. Correct, the rules say elder signs are owned by the grp and don't get lost when a character dies.

7. Not that I know of.

8. Yea, I admit this is a bit unclear.  I have been playing it as, yes they can go outside their turn because their ability says "once per turn" not "once during their turn".

9. ok, I havn't played yet where an ancient one awakens. so I havn't looked closely at rules for devouring.  I think you are correct though, they are out.  But I do know if a player dies before the ancient one awakens, they choose a new investigator. and there are rules for this.

10. that is how I have been doing it, since they deck is soo large they wont come back up that same game.

11. No.  I"m pretty sure you can only use spells and items during your turn and in the room you are in.

 

hope this helps, if someone else has another point of view about it, feel free to add your input.

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 3.  Oh man, I've been playing this wrong.  I was doing a one-for-one.  So, I have 5 clue tokens, and wanted to re-roll 5 of my 6 dice, I spent all 5 tokens.  Perhaps I should read more closely.

10.  I've been placing them out of play, but I guess either method is ok.  I figured the exhibit has been investigated/solved, and therefore is gone/done for good.

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Thanks for the replies so far.  

Responses:

1.  Agreed.

2.  Agreed.

3a.  I think you're wrong.  If that was the case, then there would be no purpose to using spell cards.  The spell cards that allow the hold of a roll are subsequently circumvented completely by individual choices of clue tokens.  

3b.  Thought so.

4.  That's weak as ****.  :(

5.  Yeah, a subsequent read through the rules makes me notice that.  

6.  Yeah, after a few reads I realized that.  Then I realized there was an Ancient One that removes Elder Signs, and they couldn't be owned personally, subsequently.

7.  Why do the Spell Slot spells seem to refer to active player in the manual?  There shouldn't be a need to specify spell targeting if only the active player can actually use spells.  

8.  I think they should only be able to influence if they are within the same room, if able to affect them at all.  

9.  Agreed.  

10.  Yeah, I logicked that one eventually.  Recycling is more effective.

11.  Okay.  That seems fair. 

Moar questions!

12.  These are all character specifics.

12a.  If Mandy Thompson allows rerolls, is a turn a turn of the clock, or a turn of the player?  I think it does, since otherwise it is BROKE as ****.

12b.  Does Joe Diamond allow his second reroll to NOT occur on immediately?  I think it occurs when you want it to, but only within that adventure.


 

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3a. i disagree.  1. because you can burn through clue tokens FAST. 2. It isn't that easy to get clue tokens.  3. spells that hold a die for you can be saved for use later in the adventure, clue rerolls are just for that one roll/one line on that adventure card.

12. I kinda agree.  it does seem broken.  At times the rules say a turn is when a player does their action.  The rules never say a turn is anything else.  It never mentions that a turn is from midnight to midnight, or that it is whe all the players go. If you have 8 players the clock will pass midnight twice, If you only have 2, each player gets 2 actions before midnight.  So unfortunately IMO how the rules read atm is that she can let any player reroll 2 dice on 1 roll during each players  turn.

13.  I havn't looked this up yet.

some of these questions are really good and point out some obvious holes in the rules.  Hopefully after more people play this game and ask thes kinds of questions we can get an errata out soon.

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 I'd like to know exactly what happens when you play Bind Monster or the Horn of somethingIdon'trecall.

1. The monster is "removed"... does it go to the player who cast the spell as a trophy?  Back in the cup?  Removed from the game?

2. If the monster was placed over a task, does "removing" it count as completing that task, or does the player now have to complete whatever task was underneath?

My hunch would be that it goes to the player as a trophy, but doesn't count as completing a task... but that's just my $.02.

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1. not exactly sure what item/spell you are referring to but on the backs of monster markers you usually get your answer.  some will say 'return to monster cup for 2 clue token" or some are worth point and the player who defeated the monster gets the marker to count as points.

for me the biggest unknown here is what happens when you turn in trophies for rewards, and some of the trophies are monster markers? do they go back into the cup or get put off to the side? i saw no answer in the rules.

2.  yea this is a little unclear too, but I have been playing it as you complete the task.  Reason being is the rules state that the monster marker stays in place until the investigator completes the adventure or fails, but still completed the monster marker task.  So when you put your dice on the monster marker they are locked there until you are done on that adventure.  The monster marker stays and still covers up the task until you are done....win or loose. 

here i only have one question.  if a monster marker is in place that locks a die.  And you beat that monster marker first, do you get the unlocked die back?

I have been playing it as NO, the die stays locked with the monster marker until the marker is removed, which happens at the end of the investigators turn if he completed the task on the monster marker.

that is how I have been playing it so far.

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 so i cant seem to find what happens when you go to 0 sanity OR 0 stamina. when both go to 0 your devourered, but nothing on what happens with just one of them. Am I just really being blind here?

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Yes, Bind Monster is quite confusing, mostly because the word "defeat" is not used in the rules about monsters, so it's clear whether it means "complete its task"or "claim it as a trophy," as well as whether you have to be on the same adventure as the monster.  Personally, I play it as allowing you to claim a monster as a trophy from anywhere (and then, if you're on the adventure, you have to complete the task underneath it), but I could be completely wrong.

SexyMike44: As to the trophies, the obvious answer would be that monsters go back to the cup and adventures go to the bottom of the deck, but that might not be the case.  I agree with you on the locked die issue, since you're not stupposed to remove the marker until the the adventure is resolved.

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That is how I have been playing it, but putting the monster markers back has an effect on the game while putting the adventure cards on the bottom of the deck does not. Maybe stacking the markers and drawing them like cards would balance this, but who knows maybe the developers want us to use a cup for the markers for a reason, maybe they want the monsters to be constantly random.

guess my point is some clarification would be nice

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I'm mostly basing my reply on Arkham Horror, where monster trophies are returned to the cup when spent.  Elder Sign borrows many things from Arkham, including the idea of the monster cup, so I expect it would work the same basic way.  I assume that, as in Arkham, the point of the cup is to be random.  Of course, if you don't fastidiously mix the cup when you return monsters to it, you may end up drawing monsters youjust put away.  I'm actually so concerned with making elements like this truly random that I don't even use a cup; I just put the monsters in a line on the side of the playing area and then use polyhedral dice to randomly determine which one to draw.

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I own most FFG games and I believe this may be the worst rulebook among them.  Too many things are unclear or not answered in the rulebook.  I find this surprising considering this is supposed to be a simple dice game.  When I play it I do have fun but I'm not sure I'm playing as the designers intended.

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Have just run into the Flute of the Outer Gods ("Discard after rolling to defeat one monster").  Similar to Bind Monster.  Not sure if I should just take the trophy, pick out and place the appropriate dice on it to complete the task or something else completely.  Although, just considering the monster "task" as completed seems simplest.

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hmm good question.  I have been playing those as it beats the monster marker and you get the mark, but now i see how you can interpret the wording this way and it is interesting.  This is an interesting dilema.

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Replies:

Mine:
3a.  Although clues are not EASY to get, they aren't hard to get either.  Most tasks are beatable with a little luck and prudent behavior, as well as the fatalism to allow yourself to lose.  I promote that idea because I've won almost every game I've played, which is unfortunate. 


Daverman:
1. I believe you need more context.  Where is a monster "removed"?  Do you mean when you spend them as a trophy?  Like all trophies, they get recycled into the game.

2. My cards say defeat, which means they defeat the monster instantaneously, which acts as if you beat the monster out of turn.  However, if the monster lies upon a monster-slot that has a task within it, the player has to continue to beat the task, at least in my opinion.

Thank you for your input guys. 

Me and my group of friends are working on clarifying rules and creating more difficult variants, as well as clarifying rules on monsters, so maybe I'll be able to post a clarified "house-rule" set.

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Good questions and replies everyone!

Hopefully they will get a 'rule errata' out sometime soon.

My question (so far) has to do with how monsters affect adventures. For instance, if you draw a tough to beat 3 requirement monster and place it on a card that only has 1 box or 2 box space (a partial I believe this is called), do you have to do all 3 requirements on the monster, or just the 1 or 2 that are now highlighted? For instance, look at the 'There's something in the basement' adventure card and the Elder Thing monster. If you place that monster marker on that adventure card, which requirements do you have to do to defeat the monster? All of them or just the first?

 

Thanks!

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All of them, length is irrelevant.  Also, random bit of somewhat relevant tactical advice: monsters tend to be very annoying to defeat, and you have to add them as an extra task to an adventure if there are no monster tasks in play.  When this happens, choose the adventure you're least likely to attempt and stick all of the monsters on it.  At one point, I think I had four or five on one adventure.

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About spells... apparently you can use them on other player's turns while in the museum. You cannot use spells while at the entrance.

"A player may spend 1 or more Common Items, Unique Items, or Spells before any roll while his Investigator marker is on an Adventure card."

"Most Spells allow a player to place the spell card next to the play area immediately before any roll of the dice."

That makes spells more handy than we've played them.

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Replies:

Dr. Jay:  A task is a single row on a card.  To complete an adventure, you must complete all the tasks.  Therefore, when a monster is put on a partial, it replaces parts of a row, and then adds it's own set to the task. 

Walk: I have another piece of tactical advice.  Throw all the monsters onto a low-penalty and out-of-order card.  This allows you to throw all the monsters into a single task that would not hurt you if you lost, but still allow you to beat the monsters.  This means if you have a turn with practically no advantage, you can go "monster hunting", which would let you keep a dump area for your monsters, while also allowing you to kill them with little-to-no penalty. 

Jenkins: This is part of the terrible and vague rules on assisting.  Can you influence other investigator's rolls?  If so, does that count as assisting?  Can you use your items for other people, when it isn't your turn?  I right now minimize the amount of assisting, except for focus slots, because I win more than lose.  When I finally add a house rule that makes the game too hard, I'll decide if I make a house rule that allows assisting in other fashions to balance that out.

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The rules really are quite confusing, even by FFG standards.  Personally, I take all of the mechanics that are unclear as when they can be used(i.e. the bit Jenkins mentioned about spells, Mandy's ability, etc.)  to mean that they can only be used on your turn.  The dice from spells can be used on other people's turns, though.

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 What happens to a die on an active spell card if the mythos effect "Spells and Unique items cannot be used today" comes up?

There's 3 possible answers that I can come up with:  A) The spell's already been cast (used), so the die can be used as normal.  B) The spell gets cancelled and the die goes back to its pool.  C) The die is locked on the card for the day.

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