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Nojo509

Grey Knights using DW rules

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Nojo509 said:

 Not all the Grey Knight powers have been Deathwatchified by the sidebars in Daemon Hunter.

Has anyone worked up all the DW conversions for the psychic powers?

 

Just as important, Squad and Solo modes.  A lot of us were expecting them in the inevitable web supplement... which Blood of Martyrs apparently didn't get.  So not so inevitable I guess!

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Dulahan said:

which Blood of Martyrs apparently didn't get.  So not so inevitable I guess!

Sister Palatines, remember? They easily equal or exceed the expected power level of Ascension, Deathwatch, and Grey Knight characters.

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Deinos said:

Dulahan said:

which Blood of Martyrs apparently didn't get.  So not so inevitable I guess!

 

Sister Palatines, remember? They easily equal or exceed the expected power level of Ascension, Deathwatch, and Grey Knight characters.

 

Doh, had a brainfart on the right supplement name.  I meant Daemon Hunter.

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Grey Knights don't get squad abilities because a squad is all grey knights. They also don't get them because all grey knights are psykers and have at least one psychic power, not to mention the fact that they can combine their powers to make them stronger and easier to cast.

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 Marines of the chaos variety in Black Crusade don't get squad mode abilities. However, the whole theme of the Astartes is that they are the ultimate soldiers, this is represented by squad and solo mode abilities in DW. That grey knights would be worse at working together than other marines seems silly. A Marine still has access to his chapter and codex Squad and Solo modes even when he is in a group consistent of brothers from his own chapter.

Also having run some games with a Grey Knight in a Death Watch group the lack of Squad Mode and Codex abilities put him at a severe disadvantage. We ended up giving him access to Codex abilities and letting the Psychic powers be his chapter solo/squad mode ability, that seemed to work very well. I did design some Squad mode abilities for Grey Knights that they can only use when in a pure GK group, just to keep the mechanic (because its a fun one). I posted them in another thread, but I'll dig them up later.

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Nojo509 said:

 Not all the Grey Knight powers have been Deathwatchified by the sidebars in Daemon Hunter.

Has anyone worked up all the DW conversions for the psychic powers?

 

As for psychic powers, I've generally converted as follows:

Threshhold: Ignore this, most powers scale with Psy Power Rating anyway.

Overbleed: An overbleed of 5 is one additional degree of success, an overbleed of 10 is per 2 degrees of success on the Focus Power Test.

Threshhold effects:  Anything which would give +/- 5 to a Power Manifestation roll, instead gives +/- 10 to the Focus Power Test, +/- 10 on a power manifestation roll converts to +/- 20 on a Focus Power Test.

 

Actually, the fact that they wrote all the psychic powers in DH rules only is my sole criticism.

Replacing Squad and Solo mode abilities with psychic powers makes sense, since the Grey Knights are a team of Psykers that are powerful in their own right, but function best as a team.  However, most people aren't going to run a team of Grey Knights, they're going to run a single Grey Knight with a team of Space Marines.  For this, I agree it's a good idea to let them use cohesion for Codex abilities and maybe have an additional power for operating in Solo mode.

I think FFG did an admirable job of integrating Grey Knights into both rulesets, while making them a comparable power level to Space Marines using rules that make sense.  However, I like the idea of Grey Knights being a clear step above your rank-and-file marine, and giving them Space Marine abilities in a addition to their standard array of Psychic Powers achieves this nicely.

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Space Marines are king at working together in the physical realm.

The enemies of Grey Knights require different approaches, so Grey Knights excel at working together in the psychic realm. Their Psy  powers are basically their squad mode abilities.

That does mean that a lone GK will lose a lot of power, the same way a DW marine loses a lot of power if he can't depend on his squad mates. So I'd allow a lone GK in a DW group to either take a houseruled equivalent to the DW Kill-Marine, or just allow him access to the Codex squad modes.

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 Here is btw the home-brew rules for solo/squad mode abilities. We also tinkered around with giving DW squads with a GK in it a Cohesion penalty due to the nature of the GK's training, the mysticism surrounding them ect.  

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DJSunhammer said:

Grey Knights don't get squad abilities because a squad is all grey knights. They also don't get them because all grey knights are psykers and have at least one psychic power, not to mention the fact that they can combine their powers to make them stronger and easier to cast.

 

Wouldn't this imply that a squad of all Ultramarines wouldn't be able to use the Ultramarine squad modes?

GK should get GK squad mode abilities (that they can only use wuth GK's).  They shouldn't be the best, but there should be something.

The rules mention that chapter squads don't have cohesion...so does a squad from the same chapter always suceed with their squad mode actions?

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 We'll probably have more about how chapter specific squads work in First Founding. I have so far handled same chapter groups as that they have a max cohesion generated normally, but don't lose cohesion points from using Codex or Chapter abilities, they can however still take Cohesion damage from outside sources representing that even Astartes can get confused or placed in situations were the command structure breaks down.

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