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Wren844

Game balance

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Hi first of all I want to say iam new to the forum and my eng may not be the best hope you can understand me.

We are 1-3 that have brought the game and feel the game is not balanced at all for more players than 2 and solo is so **** hard.

I under stand it can really hard to balance the game for diffrent number off players that play the game but something more have be done than have just one + encounter per player, just one encounter card for for a player is not enough when you get 3 more heroes.

So we made some changes that made the game alot more fun for 2+ players. First off all we removed all resourses card that is way to good for what they cost (not for solo) they are: all songs, steward of gondor. We also changed the rule on "sneak attack" to only work on none unik card wich is silly on gandarf if you ask me.

Also when you are 3-4 we added a +1 threat on all location card in staging area to make it a bit harder and last thing +1 threat on creeps in staging area for 4 player.

So what do you think off the balance on the game if you think they same as we do plz try our changes for more fun to the game, and also plz add what your changes would be.

 

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HI man. We already discuss that problem unbalanced game before. So trust me  now with 3 more quests game start to be more balanced than before anyway.

But still more players more easy to play. And some card is too powerful as well. And solo game is not so hard as you think. Just play more and you will see.

But things going to be better with every new Adv pack. So let wait little bit more until all Shadow of Mirkwod Circle come out and than will see how game is flow.

 

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You can houserule the game and its cards as you see fit, after all its a game that should give you enjoyment while playing. If you feel that the game is too easy with two players I'd rather start with a higher threat or draw more encounter cards per turn (or both). Houseruling many single cards tend to become tedious and you'll be sppending more time houseruling than playing the game I'm afraid...

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You can do it masochist way: draw 1 more encounter card each turn - 3,4,5,6..

or maybe do it this way:

draw 1 encounter card more each time when 1st player token comes back to player 1. This way for a 3 player game it would look like: 3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,5,6,6,6..

I mean it's obvious the game is unbalanced - imagine a tower defender game when you are hit by 1 zombie all the time. Or imagine some rts, say Starcraft where AI sends 12 zerglings per minute from the edge of the map. It's like initial strike maybe can kill you but later you get some marines, after that siege tanks with siege mode(that would be Gandalf spam equivalent :)) etc.

I mean the encounter deck has to compensate for heroes' cards and heroes' resources. The future expansions will be done "properly" but the ones we have now can easily be fixed by some nice encounter cards drawing algorithm - no need to make oneselves bored after the first few turns.

So I'd suggest this for 3 players:

Draw 3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,5,6,6,6..

If Gandalf is played immediately add 1 encounter card for the next turn. So if Gandlaf is played 5th turn it would look like:

3,3,3, 4,5(Gandalf played),5,6,6,6,7,7,7...

The # of encounter cards can be tracked by unused threat counter.

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hmm i really like the "round robin" approach by adding 1 more encounter card every time the starting player becomes the first player again.  it sorta adds an RPG theme to the game by simulating your heros "leveling up."  maybe also incorporate "+1 total resource" every time the starting player becomes the first player again (3 heroes in play, get 4 resources.  2 heroes in play, get 3 resources).  similar to the enemy getting harder as you "level," you also become more efficient at gathering resources. 

i dont like adding one more for gandalf being played tho, just seems a little overpowered. 

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pumpkin said:

Have you played Escape from Dol Guldur yet? Are you saying that is too easy?

Escape from Dol Guldur gets way easier with more players. With two players that scenario kicks my butt, but the one time I tried it with four players it was a cake walk.

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wren said:

Hi first of all I want to say iam new to the forum and my eng may not be the best hope you can understand me.

We are 1-3 that have brought the game and feel the game is not balanced at all for more players than 2 and solo is so **** hard.

I under stand it can really hard to balance the game for diffrent number off players that play the game but something more have be done than have just one + encounter per player, just one encounter card for for a player is not enough when you get 3 more heroes.

So we made some changes that made the game alot more fun for 2+ players. First off all we removed all resourses card that is way to good for what they cost (not for solo) they are: all songs, steward of gondor. We also changed the rule on "sneak attack" to only work on none unik card wich is silly on gandarf if you ask me.

Also when you are 3-4 we added a +1 threat on all location card in staging area to make it a bit harder and last thing +1 threat on creeps in staging area for 4 player.

So what do you think off the balance on the game if you think they same as we do plz try our changes for more fun to the game, and also plz add what your changes would be.

 

 

Like the designers say, there are different quests that allow you to utilize different heroes and different aspects of the game. some cater to solo, some to multiplayer, some to questing, some to healing, some to fighting, etc. Try different quests with the same deck and different combos of multiplayer, it might just prove to be more difficult or easier depending on the quest.

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gatharion said:

pumpkin said:

 

Have you played Escape from Dol Guldur yet? Are you saying that is too easy?

 

 

Escape from Dol Guldur gets way easier with more players. With two players that scenario kicks my butt, but the one time I tried it with four players it was a cake walk.

For me game is challenge only solo. Dol guldor Even with even with  2 players is very easy. Only 5 6 first rounds is interesting but after when each player have 2-3 allies and attachments game is start to be boring.Form this point encounter deck cannot do nothing. As i say We play 2 players , 3 players and NEVER lose any game even when we reveal 3 cards in 3 player game and 4 cards in 3 player game.I talk about 3 core set quests and HFG.

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Glaurung said:

Escape from Dol Guldur gets way easier with more players. With two players that scenario kicks my butt, but the one time I tried it with four players it was a cake walk.

 

 

For me game is challenge only solo. Dol guldor Even with even with  2 players is very easy. Only 5 6 first rounds is interesting but after when each player have 2-3 allies and attachments game is start to be boring.Form this point encounter deck cannot do nothing. As i say We play 2 players , 3 players and NEVER lose any game even when we reveal 3 cards in 3 player game and 4 cards in 3 player game.I talk about 3 core set quests and HFG.

Yes, but you've also stated that you are playing with decks built from multiple Core Sets. So the game isn't too easy, you've just included enough copies of the core cards to make it easier. That's not a problem with game balance, that's a player made problem. With x3 of every Core card you should be doing the variation where you play through the quests in order without resetting your threat, because that's the level you've set the game at by using multiple Core Sets.

With one Core Set, Escape from Dol Guldur is plenty of challenge for the money spent. Anyone who claims it's a cakewalk with one Core Set, is probably making that claim over the internet for a reason.

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Hear! Hear!  Marlow has nailed the balencing problem right on the head.  You cannot blame the game for being too easy if you  splash out a lot of extra money for extra cards to make it easier.  You don't need to add complicated house rules to make things more difficult.  Just limit the Gandalfs etc in each deck.  You could also use all those normally useless extra Encounter cards you get by buying extra sets, to add some more nasty cards to the Encounter Deck.  If you continually add more good cards to the game it is bound to get easier without the counter of more bad cards.  The challenge is what this game is all about.  I personally have as much fun on failures as successes.  A good, challenging, close contest - irrespective of outcome - is always better than an unfullfilling, easy win.  Cheers!

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Rashley said:

Hear! Hear!  Marlow has nailed the balencing problem right on the head.  You cannot blame the game for being too easy if you  splash out a lot of extra money for extra cards to make it easier.  You don't need to add complicated house rules to make things more difficult.  Just limit the Gandalfs etc in each deck.  You could also use all those normally useless extra Encounter cards you get by buying extra sets, to add some more nasty cards to the Encounter Deck.  If you continually add more good cards to the game it is bound to get easier without the counter of more bad cards.  The challenge is what this game is all about.  I personally have as much fun on failures as successes.  A good, challenging, close contest - irrespective of outcome - is always better than an unfullfilling, easy win.  Cheers!

Guys, can this please please be the last (and only true) word said about game balance on those Forums...I really hope so. ;)

You will wonder, but it took me and my wife 3 tries before we managed to beat "Gollum" recently and the new packs are all difficulties 6 or higher....

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Rashley said:

Hear! Hear!  Marlow has nailed the balencing problem right on the head.  You cannot blame the game for being too easy if you  splash out a lot of extra money for extra cards to make it easier.  You don't need to add complicated house rules to make things more difficult.  Just limit the Gandalfs etc in each deck.  You could also use all those normally useless extra Encounter cards you get by buying extra sets, to add some more nasty cards to the Encounter Deck.  If you continually add more good cards to the game it is bound to get easier without the counter of more bad cards.  The challenge is what this game is all about.  I personally have as much fun on failures as successes.  A good, challenging, close contest - irrespective of outcome - is always better than an unfullfilling, easy win.  Cheers!

Rashley said:

Hear! Hear!  Marlow has nailed the balencing problem right on the head.  You cannot blame the game for being too easy if you  splash out a lot of extra money for extra cards to make it easier.  You don't need to add complicated house rules to make things more difficult.  Just limit the Gandalfs etc in each deck.  You could also use all those normally useless extra Encounter cards you get by buying extra sets, to add some more nasty cards to the Encounter Deck.  If you continually add more good cards to the game it is bound to get easier without the counter of more bad cards.  The challenge is what this game is all about.  I personally have as much fun on failures as successes.  A good, challenging, close contest - irrespective of outcome - is always better than an unfullfilling, easy win.  Cheers!

Yep, I agree.

The adventures in the core set have obviously been designed as introductory and suitable for 2 players using a single core set.

I think the adventure packs are being designed to be more challenging for more players using well-tuned decks, but I do find it strange that people seem to think there's something wrong with game balance if their uber deck beats the game - I'd be concerned if my uber deck didn't beat the game!

I'm still tuning my leadership/tactics deck against the 2nd scenario, but once its' done I won't complain that it's too easy if that deck then beats that scenario consistently (the same way my spirit/lore deck pretty much does)

As Glaurung said, this has been discussed before at length - all we have to do is look forward to the different adventures and challenges in the new adventure packs comnig forward and trying to find decks to beat those new challenges.

Besides, I think a lot of the appeal about this game is the thematic adventure and trying out different fellowships, not designing an uber deck to beat all comers.

 

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gatharion said:

pumpkin said:

 

Have you played Escape from Dol Guldur yet? Are you saying that is too easy?

 

 

Escape from Dol Guldur gets way easier with more players. With two players that scenario kicks my butt, but the one time I tried it with four players it was a cake walk.

Yep, but thats the point. The adventures in the core set have really been designed to work with one or two players and be a challenge, as the core set is designed for 1-2 players.

 

 

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Marlow said:

Glaurung said:

 

Escape from Dol Guldur gets way easier with more players. With two players that scenario kicks my butt, but the one time I tried it with four players it was a cake walk.

 

 

For me game is challenge only solo. Dol guldor Even with even with  2 players is very easy. Only 5 6 first rounds is interesting but after when each player have 2-3 allies and attachments game is start to be boring.Form this point encounter deck cannot do nothing. As i say We play 2 players , 3 players and NEVER lose any game even when we reveal 3 cards in 3 player game and 4 cards in 3 player game.I talk about 3 core set quests and HFG.

 

 

Yes, but you've also stated that you are playing with decks built from multiple Core Sets. So the game isn't too easy, you've just included enough copies of the core cards to make it easier. That's not a problem with game balance, that's a player made problem. With x3 of every Core card you should be doing the variation where you play through the quests in order without resetting your threat, because that's the level you've set the game at by using multiple Core Sets.

With one Core Set, Escape from Dol Guldur is plenty of challenge for the money spent. Anyone who claims it's a cakewalk with one Core Set, is probably making that claim over the internet for a reason.

Yes you right you play with mono decks is still good challenge for 2-3 players game.But i wont to see challenge for 2 50 cards expert decks. And we have one already  Massing in Osgiliath (gen gon 2011 quest) this one is relly brutal. Difficult 9

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Glaurung said:

 

Yes you right you play with mono decks is still good challenge for 2-3 players game.But i wont to see challenge for 2 50 cards expert decks. And we have one already  Massing in Osgiliath (gen gon 2011 quest) this one is relly brutal. Difficult 9

Yes I heard that one is brutal. I'm sure some more 9s or even higher will come out eventually. But right now I think they are trying to appeal to as many players as possible to get the game out there. I've shown the game to a half dozen people so far and I think they liked it unless they were just being nice and didn't want to hurt my feelings. With some fairly easy and moderate quests, it is easier to entertain new players. People generally want to win or else the experience is not fun for them. The harder stuff can come later when the game has a following and people have gotten the hang of it.

I have a feeling LOTR LCG has a good chance of going the distance. People start getting frustrated playing each other over and over in Game of Thrones, etc. and then they can take a break and relax and co-op with LOTR and Star Wars LCG and be friends again.  : )

 

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Actually game balance in core set was not so good. All 3 quest was quite easy to defeated if you start to use 50 cards expert decks. But with mono deck game is still challenge.

So now things start to change step by step. New quest difficult 7 or 9 and i hope Rosgobel will be not less than 6. So if you play Massing in Osgiliath forget starter mono decks. So now we really need to build up 50 cards expert decks. And i m sure Return to Mirkwood and Death marches will be also very difficult maybe 8-9 or even 10. The last quest in the cycle should be most hard. New player cards give us more opportunity to build up the decks so encounter cards also grow more strong. Last 2 months was really boring with all this delay but now lot of action come. I start feel like everything is going to right direction and wait for tournaments system. 

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Iver said:

You will wonder, but it took me and my wife 3 tries before we managed to beat "Gollum" recently and the new packs are all difficulties 6 or higher....

my friend that i play LOTR with, and me have beat gollum and carrock at first try, with monosphere decks as they are shipped in the basegame + these expansions, not even removing the worthless cards.

 

but in my oppinion, the main balancing issue is not the difficulty of the quests. it's the huge gap between the powerful and the weak cards. every card should have a situation (1) where it's needed. and every card should have a situation (2) where it's not needed. for some cards i don't ever see (2) happening (which is the worse problem). and for some cards i never see (1) happening. i understand they are trying to make (1) true with future expansions, which seems a bit artificially to me (they should instead focus on other things). but anyways, balancing should exist in the basegame without any expansions.

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letsdance said:

Iver said:

You will wonder, but it took me and my wife 3 tries before we managed to beat "Gollum" recently and the new packs are all difficulties 6 or higher....

my friend that i play LOTR with, and me have beat gollum and carrock at first try, with monosphere decks as they are shipped in the basegame + these expansions, not even removing the worthless cards.

Sorry, but its hard for me to believe that. We did beat other much "harder" scenarios sometimes at first try, but this stupid one was really a laugh. Just locations. wow. ;)

Either you did read a lot about it on the forums or read through the scenario before setting up your deck, or every normal deck fails this imo...

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locations are only an issue if you don't have a northern tracker. then they don't really matter anymore. that's why i always play blue when we try a new scenario.

like i said, we didn't setup the decks, but i do use the rule that allows me to (once) redraw my start hand, if i want to. for blue that is when i don't have unexpected courage or a northern tracker.

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letsdance said:

locations are only an issue if you don't have a northern tracker. then they don't really matter anymore. that's why i always play blue when we try a new scenario.

like i said, we didn't setup the decks, but i do use the rule that allows me to (once) redraw my start hand, if i want to. for blue that is when i don't have unexpected courage or a northern tracker.

 

Ok, that explains a lot of course! And we had really unlucky cards in first two or three play throughs and as said we did not really look at the encounter deck or so. ;)

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