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Black Crusade Errata?

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The minion rules really need to be seen over. First of all, the skills for a minor minion says: 4 skills of rank one(trained), but in the skills section the  ranks are called: one(known) and  two(trained). What is actually meant is fairly obvious to anyone who's played one of the previous games, but I am not sure it is the case for new players.

 

Similarily, in the traits section Unnatural Senses is listed, but the rules for unnatural senses says that there always has to be a number afterwards that specifies the range. I find it quite impossible to guess which number would be balanced for this trait.

 

Then there's the slight balance issue of a greater minion having the same points for statbuy as an imperial commoner. I mean yeah minion has talents and traits, but it is still ridiculous that a greater minion is as naturally apt as a regular citizen.

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KommissarK said:

The psychic power Gift of Chaos deals damage to a target, and, if the target fails a test by a certain amount, the target gains a Gift of Chaos (mutation). No corruption points are gained, and, in general, the attack will deal at most 24 wounds (certainly painful, but survivable at higher power levels).

Are players allowed to use the p. 290 boldface text (you're allowed to modify the random Gift of Chaos roll by your Infamy bonus) to modify this newly gained Gift of Chaos. Signs point to no, but the p.290 boldface appears to be attached to the gaining of any Gift of Chaos.

If they are allowed to modify the roll, then this could potentially affect game balance. Player downtime may indeed be long enough to allow for the psyker to cast this effect on party members, and for players to "hope" to fail the test and gain a Gift. If players have an Infamy bonus of at least 4 or 5, then there is only about a 8-12% chance of rolling a Gift on the table that is actually "bad." All others are exceedingly useful (if the player doesn't mind their character having a rough time fitting into Imperial society).

During downtime, players could allow the psyker to cast this, and then heal back to a point where they can try again to gain another Gift.

Obviously, GM fiat/rule 0 is demanded here, but at the same time, I prefer to not have to pull that out unless I have to.

I'd say the risks attached to this is enough to make it legal. First of all, it requires them to fail with four degrees or more, which is a 1d10+8 points of damage straight to their wounds. It also requires them FAIL, and even if they don't fail hard enough they still take some damage. It's a high infamy power, so it's not gonna be a starting ability. It's gonna leave them significantly exposed to attacks (they're taking a helluva beating for sure, and they might not get anything out of it) if they get caught with their pants down.

Also, the boldface text does not apply to failings. However, this power is not listed as such, it makes no mention of it and since it's not based on corruption thresholds I'd say the boldface applies. What you need to remember, however, is that they are gonna be piling on mutations on top of mutations, which is most likely gonna render them horribly obviously deformed.

So yeah, I'd allow this. With planning, cunning and clever use of various penalties, you can certainly give yourself more mutations without massive risk. But, since the mutation table is so much fun and you don't get to roll enough on it as it is, and this has vulnerabilities for all but the most hardcore regenerator, I'd call it fair.

I also encourage the use of Gifts of Chaos as rewards for success, however, including allowing player choice for truly exceptional acts, so you might wanna consider my view somewhat biased towards excessive mutations ;)

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Spehktre said:

SomVone said:

 

 Legion Plasma weapons are a step easier to get than any other Legion weapons.

I'm pretty sure this is an oversight.

 

 

Actually this is not true.

The Following is Scarce:
Legion Flamer

The following are Very Rare:
Legion Shotgun
Legion Plasma Gun
Legion Plasma Pistol
Legion Heavy Flamer

The following are Extremely Rare:
Legion Bolter 
Legion Bolt Pistol
Legion Combi-Bolter
Legion Heavy Bolter
Legion Melta-Gun
 

The question remains: Why?

Legion Bolter, Legion Bolt Pistol, Legion Combat Knife and Legion Chainsword are the most common weapons among CSM´s (only the knife is not extremely rare).

Never heard of any CSM´s using shotguns btw.... And Plasma Weapons are definetly of the "harder to come by" type of weapons.

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There is a copy paste in the talents section on swift attack and lightening attack which has led to a question, does the cannot be used with unweildy unbalanced weapons apply to swift attack as well?

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 Critcal Table, page 252, Chest

5: A solid blow to the chest pulverises......The Target is stunned for two rounds and must make an Ordinary (+10) Toughness 

So the character makes the toughness test and what...it doesn't state...though I looked up the same critical in the Deathwatch book.
I think it should be: or lose 1d5 Fatigue

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Santiago said:

 Critcal Table, page 252, Chest

5: A solid blow to the chest pulverises......The Target is stunned for two rounds and must make an Ordinary (+10) Toughness 

So the character makes the toughness test and what...it doesn't state...though I looked up the same critical in the Deathwatch book.
I think it should be: or lose 1d5 Fatigue

I agree, stunned for 2 rounds and 1d5 levels of Fatigue is the same in Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader and Deathwatch.

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  Does Weapon training also cover heavy weapons. From what I understand in the talent description (pag 134) it does (and the description is pretty cryptical) and the Talent Change table (pag 283) seem to support this idea but in the Advances by Alignment table (pag 76) Heavy Weapons Training is considered a separate category from Weapon Training. If I understand this well Weapons training has fused the Basic and Pistol Weapon Training talents from the other games but not the Heavy Weapon Training.

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p. 143

TOXIC (X)
A creature with this trait is poisonous Some weapons rely
on toxins and poisons to do their damage. Anyone that
successfully deals damage to a Toxic creature must make a
Toughness Test with a penalty equal to 10 times the number
in parenthesis (X) or suffer 1d10 points of Damage (of the
same type as the weapon which infl icted the hit) not reduced
by armour or Toughness.

------

 

I think this is supposed to be like weapon special quality? So that minion has to deal damage to get toxic damage in.

 

Now text says that creature who deals damage to a minion gets damaged, no matter if you shoot it or deal damage in melee.

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balom said:

  Does Weapon training also cover heavy weapons. From what I understand in the talent description (pag 134) it does (and the description is pretty cryptical) and the Talent Change table (pag 283) seem to support this idea but in the Advances by Alignment table (pag 76) Heavy Weapons Training is considered a separate category from Weapon Training. If I understand this well Weapons training has fused the Basic and Pistol Weapon Training talents from the other games but not the Heavy Weapon Training.



It includes heavy weapons. The talent is pretty **** clear to me. "The character can use all weapons with Class: Pistol, Basic, Heavy, Throwing, and Melee within the group he has selected with this talent." Not a lot of uncertainty there, if you ask me.

Furthermore if it does NOT include Heavy weapons there is no described talent that does, which leaves a rather large, gaping hole.

Also, the table on pg 76 features other no longer existing talents, such as Nurgle's Unnatural Vigour, which decreases it's reliability a little.

In short, with two descriptive references citing the change on the side of "it includes heavy" and a single table with an unexplained talent against it, I'd say the evidence is on the side of "It includes heavy".

 

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bladerunner_35 said:

KommissarK said:

 

The psychic power Gift of Chaos deals damage to a target, and, if the target fails a test by a certain amount, the target gains a Gift of Chaos (mutation). No corruption points are gained, and, in general, the attack will deal at most 24 wounds (certainly painful, but survivable at higher power levels).

Are players allowed to use the p. 290 boldface text (you're allowed to modify the random Gift of Chaos roll by your Infamy bonus) to modify this newly gained Gift of Chaos. Signs point to no, but the p.290 boldface appears to be attached to the gaining of any Gift of Chaos.

If they are allowed to modify the roll, then this could potentially affect game balance. Player downtime may indeed be long enough to allow for the psyker to cast this effect on party members, and for players to "hope" to fail the test and gain a Gift. If players have an Infamy bonus of at least 4 or 5, then there is only about a 8-12% chance of rolling a Gift on the table that is actually "bad." All others are exceedingly useful (if the player doesn't mind their character having a rough time fitting into Imperial society).

During downtime, players could allow the psyker to cast this, and then heal back to a point where they can try again to gain another Gift.

Obviously, GM fiat/rule 0 is demanded here, but at the same time, I prefer to not have to pull that out unless I have to.

 

 

Wicked cool! Consider it stolen. ;)

The gods reward you with the gift of chaos spawn... please just become a random ball of flesh for trying to munchkin.

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crisaron said:

 

bladerunner_35 said:

 

KommissarK said:

 

The psychic power Gift of Chaos deals damage to a target, and, if the target fails a test by a certain amount, the target gains a Gift of Chaos (mutation). No corruption points are gained, and, in general, the attack will deal at most 24 wounds (certainly painful, but survivable at higher power levels).

Are players allowed to use the p. 290 boldface text (you're allowed to modify the random Gift of Chaos roll by your Infamy bonus) to modify this newly gained Gift of Chaos. Signs point to no, but the p.290 boldface appears to be attached to the gaining of any Gift of Chaos.

If they are allowed to modify the roll, then this could potentially affect game balance. Player downtime may indeed be long enough to allow for the psyker to cast this effect on party members, and for players to "hope" to fail the test and gain a Gift. If players have an Infamy bonus of at least 4 or 5, then there is only about a 8-12% chance of rolling a Gift on the table that is actually "bad." All others are exceedingly useful (if the player doesn't mind their character having a rough time fitting into Imperial society).

During downtime, players could allow the psyker to cast this, and then heal back to a point where they can try again to gain another Gift.

Obviously, GM fiat/rule 0 is demanded here, but at the same time, I prefer to not have to pull that out unless I have to.

 

 

Wicked cool! Consider it stolen. ;)

 

 

The gods reward you with the gift of chaos spawn... please just become a random ball of flesh for trying to munchkin.

 



You do realize there's a disorder in the game that forces players to attempt to, among other things, get more mutations, right? Through, as the rules stand, stuff like the above. Also, tbh, getting more mutations is a dubious way to munchkin at best. Much easier to just buy all the cybernetics and guns you want. Since you can.

Also, how about not accusing people of being munchkins because they might wanna try to do something in a game of which you know nothing? For all you know, he could be doing that because he plays in a character focused game that doesn't give a **** about game balance and everybody's cool with that, and a fun way of getting more mutations is just what they've all been looking for!

 

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I got the chance to start rtolling a couple of heretics up last night (renegade and Heretek) and even there, having never read this thread before, the mistakes are glaring.

Why is there yet no official errata, or even word from ffg? Do they just not care? We can all have a laugh over the odd typo, but some of this stuff is crazy: missing explanations, missing rules, copy and paste fail.

This has really disappointed me; I looked at BC and thought 'awesome', now that i'm getting to the meat of it I'm thinking 'what the hell?'

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Its not that FFG don't care, they just don't tend to say anything general (they will answer specific direct questions) until they are actually ready to publish an errata. Now, there is almost certainly on in the works, and I would expect it any month now.

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signoftheserpent said:

It's been 6 months. Really, this is no way to present a product. They haven't even offered a single word as to what is happening in regard to that. Expecting it any month is, imo, completely out of order.

And is entirely in keeping with the vast majority of RPG companies - the amount of resources they have are finite, and taking time out to make errata means they have fewer people writing new content. I'm not saying that that is right, but that's how it works.

Plus, I imagine a few of their writers are busy on their totally-obviously-going-to-make-it Star Wars RPG.

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Santiago said:

Critcal Table, page 252, Chest

5: A solid blow to the chest pulverises......The Target is stunned for two rounds and must make an Ordinary (+10) Toughness

So the character makes the toughness test and what...it doesn't state...though I looked up the same critical in the Deathwatch book. I think it should be: or lose 1d5 Fatigue


This is my fav mistake in the whole book. When I was going over the critical charts in some detail it was one of the first things I noticed. It made me laugh.

I almost want to make my players take the Toughness Test if they ever get this result, but have nothing happen pass or fail - it's following RAW after all. lengua.gif

BYE

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I haven't been able to find any information on the talent Unnatural Vigour. So im not sure if it is going to be added in future supplements or if im just blind.

Also im confused about Disguise Kit and Forgery Kit as they dont add any modifiers to any skill test. Are they supposed to just give you the ability to disguise yourself without a test or is there something missing from the item description?

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I would say that a disguise kit and / or forgery kit have the materials required to make anything but a basic disguise or forgery.

After quite a long hiatus, I am once again reading through this book in detail, and have noticed a few things:

The Scrap Code Generator (page 186) has no availability or weight.

Neither does the Eclipse Pulsator (page 185). Another question on this device, whose text states: When triggered, the device emanates a pulse of engergy that negates any force fields, psychic protections, or other unnatural defences within 10 metres of the device for 1d5 rounds", would it be capable of punching a small hole in a gellar (spelling?) field (and how much fun would that be :D)?

Also, I have not found much reference to "characteristic damage" and what separates the permanent damage from the non permanent type, or how it is healed.

If I chance across more, I may end up double posting.

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Swot said:

I would say that a disguise kit and / or forgery kit have the materials required to make anything but a basic disguise or forgery.

The old Forgery Kit from Inq HB used to give +20 for Good Qual and +30 for Best Quality, so I guess its not too far to award those kind of bonuses to most of the types of kits out there. Though FFG needs to clarify just 'what' the Forgery Skill comes under now, it used to be Trade Copyist or Tech Use, though IMO it could just as easily come under something like Security really.

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