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Daedalius

Making use of some of the Black Crusade changes to combat in DH

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So the shooting changes seem very reasonable, and we will probably implement those, as all of us think that semi-auto should likely be more accurate than full auto to begin with.

The only things I am wondering about are the changes to melee attacks, specifically swift attack, parry, dodge, etc.  Obviously it will become much easier to figure these things out once the book comes out, but for now, we can speculate.

So obviously swift attack/lightning attack would be going to a similar system to semi/full-auto, with multiple hits governed by DoS.  Obviously, parry and dodge should function similarly.  So if you are fighting someone, hit them with lightning attack, get 2 DoSs (additional hits on lightning attack per DoS like full-auto? or every 2 DoS?) so that accounts for 3 hits.  They must then, to successfully parry or dodge, get just as many DoS as the attacker to negate the damage.  Another wrench in this is an offhand weapon, does it get an additional regular attack?

Thoughts?

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So yea I tried this... and do not like it at all.

Its very likely you won't actually get all of your melee attacks(55 ws, +10aim, -10weapon in each hand, you'd need a 15 to get 4 DoS to hit with all 3 of your lightning attack hits), which is the exact opposite of how it currently works.  Unless they have serious changes to swift attack and lightning attack, like giving them huge bonuses if you have them talented, I don't really like it, no matter how much it speeds up the game (which isn't much really).

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Daedalius said:

So yea I tried this... and do not like it at all.

Its very likely you won't actually get all of your melee attacks(55 ws, +10aim, -10weapon in each hand, you'd need a 15 to get 4 DoS to hit with all 3 of your lightning attack hits), which is the exact opposite of how it currently works.  Unless they have serious changes to swift attack and lightning attack, like giving them huge bonuses if you have them talented, I don't really like it, no matter how much it speeds up the game (which isn't much really).

That's probably because you appear to be trying to hybidise two different versions of the rules without having actually seen the new version of Lightning Attack. Now, while I can't discuss how Lightning Attack specifically works (nor how Two-Weapon Fighting interacts with Swift/Lightning Attack), I will point to the version of Swift Attack listed in Broken Chains.

It's a simple "+0 to hit, +1 hit per 2 Degrees of Success", essentially identical to a Semi-Auto Burst attack (except Semi-Auto Burst is specifically limited by the RoF of the weapon). It doesn't limit the number of hits to 2 (the number of attacks gained from Swift Attack in the existing games), it simply gives you multiple hits based on Degrees of Success. So, to compare, a WS 55 character making a Swift Attack (we'll ignore two weapon fighting for the moment) in each version of the rules:

DH - 2 separate rolls to hit, 55% chance of each one hitting. Simple enough.

BC - Aim + Roll to Hit for 65% chance of hitting at least once, 45% chance of hitting at least twice, 25% chance of hitting three or more times, and 5% chance of hitting 4 times.

Black Crusade's (or, rather, the version of that listed in Broken Chains, an inherently simplified version of the game's rules for demonstration purposes) version has the potential to score more hits than the DH version.

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The only ones for whom the new system is worse than the old systems are chars with low weapon skill, because now the have two chancec of hitting at all and with the new system they get one chance of hitting at +10% for aim.

All in all the system works good for us, as we already use it.

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Ah I see N0-1_H3r3, that is interesting.  Thank you for pointing that out.  Maybe I can surmise that the new version of lightning attack grants a hit for each DoS then, just like full auto.  Although I still have no idea how it works with 2 weapons, or how parry/dodge interact with dodging multiple hits ;) (or how it works with blademaster).  That book needs to get to print!

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I'd be more inclined to try the new rules in my games if I had info on a few of these small things.

Any chance there will be anything before the full release?  Maybe another character that has lightning attack, two-weapon wielder,  and blademaster so you can kind of say how those work? :)

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Daedalius said:

That book needs to get to print!

 

GenCon starts this time next week, so I imagine the book will be available then in limited quantities, and soon afterwards in stores (I don't know precisely when; it'll happen when it happens). It's not a huge wait.

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Isn't Lightning Attack a full action, meaning you'd have to do the Aim action in the prior round?

I prefer the Broken Chains method but think that there needs to be some form of limitation. Maybe make it that Lightning Attack can be taken multiple times, giving the character more potential hits (first, 2 hits; second, 4; third 6 etc)?

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Daedalius said:

Well... in broken chains, swift attack is a half action.

Why would lightning attack be a full action then?

Especially since, if it works like Semi/Full Auto, it'd be a half action, just like both Semi and Full Auto.

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