CS Bran Stark and revealing new plots

[Azarith_Stryffe 0]

So I have a question, what is this ability really used for?  Do I play a plot, resolve it's effects, kneel Bran and get ANOTHER plot cards effects?  Or am I misinterpreting this wrong?  If it's not that way I don't really see a good use for him.

[schrecklich 0]

 You have the right idea.  Bran lets you manipulate plot cards in a few different ways.  You could just use him with "when revealed" (and similar) plots to get twice the normally allowed number of plot effects per turn.  Or you could use him to reveal a high initiative plot, become first player, and then reveal a plot with better claim or gold for the rest of the turn.  Or you could use him during the plot phase before plots are revealed to reveal Valar Morghulis and then reveal a different plot with better claim/gold/etc.

[Saturnine 47]

schrecklich said:

Or you could use him during the plot phase before plots are revealed to reveal Valar Morghulis and then reveal a different plot with better claim/gold/etc.

 

Provided you can save Bran from Valar's kill effect, of course.

[Bomb 66]

Would be a solid character to use with those city plots as well. 

If Bran is in play early enough, you could get 2 city plots each round and quickly rack up X city plots early to make them effective very quickly.

If you only have city plots, by round 2 or 3 you'll have 3 - 5 city plots in the used pile and you can then play City of Soldiers and blast a strong character of your opponents.

[Azarith_Stryffe 0]

When I reveal a new plot with Bran, do I get it's effect too?  Like if I use Summoning Season, and then use bran to change it to say Building Season.  Do I get a character AND a location?

[Bomb 66]

Azarith_Stryffe said:

When I reveal a new plot with Bran, do I get it's effect too?  Like if I use Summoning Season, and then use bran to change it to say Building Season.  Do I get a character AND a location?

You always resolve the "When revealed" effect of a plot unless there is a card that can cancel it, like Old Bear Mormont.

You can use Bran Stark's ability before plots are chosen or after all plots are revealed and resolved during the Plot Phase.

Keep in mind that the plots you mention above give an opponent those same benefits. :-)

[Azarith_Stryffe 0]

Hey Bomb, thank you so much for all the advice.  If I may ask one more favor, could you go to my thread in the deck building thread and answer there

[schrecklich 0]

Saturnine said:

schrecklich said:

 

Or you could use him during the plot phase before plots are revealed to reveal Valar Morghulis and then reveal a different plot with better claim/gold/etc.

 

 

 

Provided you can save Bran from Valar's kill effect, of course.

Saving Bran from Valar is helpful for future plot tricks but not required to reveal Valar first and then a second plot card for the turn.  There is a player action window in the Plot phase before plots are revealed and you can use Bran to reveal Valar during this window (possibly killing Bran) and then reveal a new plot card for the turn and use that plot's initiative, claim, and gold (plus any other effects it has).

[Saturnine 47]

schrecklich said:

Saving Bran from Valar is helpful for future plot tricks but not required to reveal Valar first and then a second plot card for the turn.  There is a player action window in the Plot phase before plots are revealed and you can use Bran to reveal Valar during this window (possibly killing Bran) and then reveal a new plot card for the turn and use that plot's initiative, claim, and gold (plus any other effects it has).

Ah, yes, of course. I didn't think of that. 

[StuH2 1]

 Hi guys, 

 

I am really new to the game - bought it 2 says ago. We played for a long time last night (is 3 hrs avg for a melee?)

 

The bran question arose last night. I told my friends that they would only get one plot effect. My reasoning was from following the flow chart in the support section:

 

1) Plot Phase begins

 

2) Action Phase - Bran does his thing and reveals a plot card

 

3) Plot phase continues and players search and reveal plot cards

 

4) Initiative

 

5) First players

 

6) Resolve when reveal plot effects

 

So my thinking was that as when revealed plot effects do not have their effect untill stage 6 (in my list above), by that point the plot revealed by bran as been superceded by the plot chosen during the plot phase as normal.

I thought bran was a way to get around plots. You are saying he is a way to get the effects of two plots as when revealed effects automatically trigger?

 

TY in response

 

Stu

 

(loving the game so far.... still not sure what to buy though because I only have CS and 2 random chapter packs - do I basically need a another corse set to get enough holdings, basic guys, for those decks?)

[ktom 598]

stuh said:

So my thinking was that as when revealed plot effects do not have their effect untill stage 6 (in my list above), by that point the plot revealed by bran as been superceded by the plot chosen during the plot phase as normal.

I thought bran was a way to get around plots. You are saying he is a way to get the effects of two plots as when revealed effects automatically trigger?

Couple of difficulties with your reasoning:

1) Why would you think that Bran replaces the chance all players get to reveal plots in #3? More to the point, since the rules say that all players choose and reveal a plot in #3, what is it about Bran's ability that says someone can ignore that rule?

2) You should not think of 3-6 above as 4 separate steps. They are 4 separate sections of the same step. You should really have them labeled as 3a, 3b, 3c, and 3d.

3) The "when revealed" plot text on a plot means exactly that: it activates when it is revealed. You do not need the framework step in order to activate the text - you simply need the plot to be revealed. It's no different than a card that says "after you play this card...." You don't wait until you have played all your cards before that "after you play" effect kicks in - you do it right away. Plus, you know, that plot becomes your revealed plot, which is what the rules reference for claim, income, etc. at the appropriate times.

So the whole point of Bran is to create another time to "reveal" a plot. The mechanics of plot cards themselves are no different: you reveal them, they become your revealed plot, their text activates. Suppose you had a card that said "you may initiate a challenge no matter what this phase is" (they exist)? Would you not have to deal with claim or any other mechanics of the challenge because the framework windows on the flow chart don't line up?

You cannot avoid plot effects. Bran lets you control plots by moving through them faster, not by getting around them.

 

 

 

[Bomb 66]

Azarith_Stryffe said:

Hey Bomb, thank you so much for all the advice.  If I may ask one more favor, could you go to my thread in the deck building thread and answer there

Hi Azarith_Stryffe,

I am very new to this game myself.  I am trying to become well versed in the rules and haven't had a chance to do much deck building experimentation yet.  Summer time has been a killer so far in terms of finding time to play and what not so I haven't been able to do as much as I'd like.

I mostly come on here during work to learn as much as I can.

[oshi2 0]

To paint a pretty picture, your chart should look more like this...

1) Plot Phase begins

2) Action Phase

• Bran Reveals a new plot
• If the plot has an effect whenever it is revealed, it resolves.

3) Choose & Reveal Plots

• Initiative/Determine first player
• If a plot has an effect whenever it is revealed, it resolves.(order is determined by first player if multiple)
• Choose Titles [if melee] 

4) Action Phase

• Bran can go here too

5) End of plot phase 

Basically the Resolution of "when revealed" effects is a side effect of revealing plots, Not its own step only found only in the plot phase.
The FAQ specifically indicates when initiative is done in relation to "when revealed" resolution because it is first player that determines the order of resolution. NOT because it is the only time a plots "when revealed" effect can resolve.
On the other hand, Yeah, Initiative is only settled in the plot phase.

If they had not shown it this way, it'd be easy to say "Welp! we gotta reveal our plots before we can determine initiative, oh, I guess that includes 'when revealed' effects too."

btw, i find 4 player games go for about 2 hours more or less, depending on the decks on table. There are a couple reasons yours would be taking longer. For 1, being unfamiliar with the rules can take time. and 2, the core set decks are rather inefficient at what they do, and can take their sweet time getting to 15 power.

[Saturnine 47]

oshi said:

On the other hand, Yeah, Initiative is only settled in the plot phase.

And just to clarify, initiative is only determined as part of the framework actions of that phase. Any plot revealed outside of that framework action window (via Bran or any other effect) has no bearing on initiative (or income, for that matter).

[schrecklich 0]

Saturnine said:

oshi said:

 

On the other hand, Yeah, Initiative is only settled in the plot phase.

 

 

And just to clarify, initiative is only determined as part of the framework actions of that phase. Any plot revealed outside of that framework action window (via Bran or any other effect) has no bearing on initiative (or income, for that matter).

By "no bearing on initiative" you mean "no bearing on the initiative count to determine the first player." The initiative value of your currently revealed plot card can still have relevance in other parts of the turn due to cards like Host of the Bear.

[Saturnine 47]

schrecklich said:

By "no bearing on initiative" you mean "no bearing on the initiative count to determine the first player." The initiative value of your currently revealed plot card can still have relevance in other parts of the turn due to cards like Host of the Bear.

 

Very true. I didn't think of that.

[Mykel The Vile 0]

schrecklich said:

Saturnine said:

 

schrecklich said:

 

Or you could use him during the plot phase before plots are revealed to reveal Valar Morghulis and then reveal a different plot with better claim/gold/etc.

 

 

 

Provided you can save Bran from Valar's kill effect, of course.

 

 

Saving Bran from Valar is helpful for future plot tricks but not required to reveal Valar first and then a second plot card for the turn.  There is a player action window in the Plot phase before plots are revealed and you can use Bran to reveal Valar during this window (possibly killing Bran) and then reveal a new plot card for the turn and use that plot's initiative, claim, and gold (plus any other effects it has).

[/quote

How does this save Bran though, he'd still be dead because of Valar wouldnt he ?

[Mykel The Vile 0]

Sorry meant to quote above massage.

How does above action save Bran from Valar ?

 

[Mykel The Vile 0]

Sorry what I mean is I think you can save Bran if you have, say,  Nymeria attached to Bran.

but what is the reasoning to the above message, is it just to say that you can still play Valar and another plot after by killing Bran or am I missing something else.

Thanks

M

[Bomb 66]

They are simply saying what you are suspecting.  If you want to reveal Valar and then another plot without the need to save Bran, you may use him during the Player Action Window to reveal Valar before the framework action window that is for having every player reveal their plots during the Plot phase.  This way you are not stuck with getting only 2 gold, 0 initiative, and 0 claim, and can play another plot that may devastate your opponents just after they had to kill off all the characters they couldn't save.

[ktom 598]

Point being: If you want Bran's ability to reveal the second plot, you're going to need to save him if the first plot is Valar. But if you use Bran's ability to reveal the first plot (Valar), you don't need to save him and you don't need him to be around to reveal the second plot.