Confused about The Power of Blood

[ktei2008 0]

Consider the following scenario:

Current plot is "The Power of Blood" and I have 2 characters Catelyn and Shaggydog. I lose a military challenge the claim of which is 1. Now I have to satisfy the claim value. Since this plot says characters with Noble crest cannot be killed, can I choose to Catelyn to kill and then save her (because she has the Noble crest) to satisfy this claim value?

Thanks for any help.

[schrecklich 0]

 Nope.  Power of Blood does not save Catelyn from being killed.  It prevents her from being killed in the first place.  Since she can not be killed, she can not be chosen to be killed to pay for an ability or to pay for military claim.

[ktom 598]

"Cannot be killed" not only means that global kill effects "slide off" the character, but also that the character cannot be chosen to die for specific kill effects - including military claim.

Non-noble characters cannot hide behind Noble characters when Power of Blood is out. In your scenario, you'd have to pick Shaggydog to die for military claim because he is your only eligible character.

 

[ktei2008 0]

Thank you both of you, ktom an schrecklich. Very clear answer.

[Winged_Human 0]

Is this also true when Wildfire assault is played against Power of the blood?

Since the Characters "cannot be killed" does that force you to choose them as your "3" for wildfire assault?

 

[ktom 598]

Winged_Human said:

Since the Characters "cannot be killed" does that force you to choose them as your "3" for wildfire assault?

You have to read Wildfire Assault very carefully here to see the difference, but no, you are not forced to choose your CBK characters as your 3 for Wildfire. Here's why:

Wildfire Assault reads; "When revealed, each player chooses up to 3 of his or her characters. All characters not chosen are killed (cannot be saved)."

So with this plot, you are choosing 3 characters, and the other characters die. See the difference? With kill effects like military claim, you choose a character and it dies. Essentially, it is "choose X; X dies." That is what CBK says you cannot do. But Wildfire is essentially "choose X; Y dies." CBK does not place limits on that kind of indirect choice.

Another way to look at Wildfire is that you choose 3 characters that are exempt from the general, "Valar-style" kill effect.

So the way that CBK works with Wildfire is that you are not forced to choose the CBKs as any of your 3 characters because the other characters are not actually "chosen" to die. But when the "kill everything else" general effect resolves, the kill will roll right off of them. With CBK characters, you'll end up with more than 3 after Wildfire resolves.

 

 

 

[Zsa 0]

You have to be careful with the wording.

Wildfire assault says pick up to 3 characters - you can choose whatever characters you please. Then, the REST of the characters are killed.

So if I have 2 noble characters and 3 more non-noble on the board, I will always pick the 3 non-noble characters for wildfire assault. When the kill effect tries to remove my remaining characters, it fizzles due to power of blood. In this instance I'm left with all characters on the board.

It's different than military claim because there you cannot choose an invalid target for claim.

If the plot said for example: "Each player chooses and kills one character, if able", I would have to choose one of my 3 non-noble characters to bite the bullet, since the 2 nobles would be invalid targets.

[Winged_Human 0]

Thanks for the info guys.  I had been playing Wildfire Assault like that, but I just w2anted to verify that we were playing it correctly.

 

Thanks

 

[klye 0]

Where... in the rules.... can I find this?  I agree with the answer, I just wanted written proof.

[ktom 598]

In the FAQ. Under the entry for "The word 'cannot'".

 

[klye 0]

Argh.  ok. Really dense.  STILL cant find it.  I looked at the 23 page FAQ, and didn't find your "cannot"  reference.  Can you throw me a bone and give me a page number?

Please dont pull my leg on this one, my small group is new to the game and are trying to answer some questions.  We've already looked in the rules & FAQ for a "Formal" ruling.

[klye 0]

AND.... nevermind   Found it.  Should of just used Crtl F from the beginning.

[klye 0]

Just wanted to make sure I understand this....

So, in an extreme case, let's assume the Lannister player's only character is out is a noble and he currently has Power of Blood .  Suppose he loses a combat challenge, for which the opponents claim is 1.  BUT, since the lannister cannot target his noble to kill, the claim goes unfullfilled right?   I'm ingoring any other resuls of the claim such as power gain.

[ktom 598]

Not "unfulfilled." You just had no legal targets.

It's no different from winning a MIL challenge against a player with 0 characters. Claim is not "unfulfilled," so much as no legal targets.