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theboss2

Stealth vs. Armor Type

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While this might be buried somewhere in the players handbook I didn't find anything in the core books from the core set.

Im just curious are their any rules that handle stealth vs. armor type?  For example what happens when a thief decides to put on Plate Mail and than attempts to sneak around, or just generally attempts acrobatics.  Are their any limitations, rules or is this all kind of free form?

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I don't think there's any specific rule about this but it is easy enough to throw in a bunch of misfortune dice when attempting something in the "wrong" outfit. Throwing in misfortune dice is the general way to impose penalties that come from environmental and similar effects (such as attempting to do something with the wrong tools).

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Does this seem about balance and appriopriate for a house rule for that?

 

Wearing different types of armor or holding certain types of shields can affect a characters performance when using certain types of skills

The following rules add misfortune dice to Agility and Strength based skill checks (Exception: Intimidate )

<m> Brigandine, Mail Shirt, Chainmail
<m><m> Scale, Uthuan Scale
<m><m><m> Breastplate, Chain
<m><m><m><m> Full Plate

<m> Round/Kite Shield
<m><m> Tower Shield

NOTE: The GM reserves the right to lower or raise the misfortune based on any given situation.

<m> Stands for Misfortune dice.

 

 

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I'd probably wing it on a situational basis (for example when a thief try to sneak around a castle in full plate mail, which is obviously a player trying to maximise his character). I mean with your houserule a knight riding a horse (AG) with a full plate and large shield would get a lot of misfortune to ride checks. I would just use misfortune dice for the most obvious things, like climbing a tree in full plate, sneaking in chainmail or similar things. I would not make it a general rule.

But otherwise the number of misfortune dice you suggest seems ok to me. four misfortune for sneaking or climbing a wall in full plate feels appropriate for example.

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I don't have the book in front of me but you may also want to consult the "Encumbrance" rules for some ideas on how this is handled in the game.  I know that if your character exceeds their encumbrance limit, they begin taking Misfortune Dice to certain checks as well as losing their "free" Maneuver each round during Encounter Mode.  I'm not sure what the encumbrance value is for plate mail but I'm willing to bet it's shockingly high.

Another possible "quick-n-dirty" house rule for these scenarios (as that's just the kind of house rule I prefer) would be to add a number of misfortune dice equal to the Soak value of the armor worn.

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Ya I was thinking about riding would need some exceptions and some of the other skills might be affected but I was thinking that what I would do is use this as less a house rule more a guide, so that players know in advance that "Hey sneaking around in plate mail has 4 misfortune dice and than apply logic to the exceptions just so players have some form of basis for it.  But ya I agree .. You have to understand Im coming off from 4th edition and that game was so "ruly" that I forgot what it actually means to GM (its been about 3-4 years since I played Vampire for example).

But I was just trying to capture roughly the "amount" of misfortune dice.. for example 4 misfortune when sneaking using plate.. wether or not that was a reasonable number... Its kind of hard to gauge it for me right now since Im new to the system.  Im sort of creating a custom deck of " GM rules" cards for myself so I can have them in my hand and when I need a ruling on something rather than being inconsistant and making it up each time it comes up I could kind of consult my own DM rules deck to get an idea of where I should be at.  I do expect that this will still vary from situation to situation (as in the ride example I would probobly rule that if your class skill is riding instead of 4 misfortune dice maybe you just get one purple difficulty dice instead or perhaps base it on the manuver and equipment.. aka what kind of saddle it is.

Ï guess what Im driving at is Im trying to kind of visualize it in kind of a realistic way while maintaing the sort of abstract charm of the game and to maintain some consistancy so that I dont give one player 4 misfortune dice today and 2 three weeks from now for a similiar situation because my players don't mind GM calls but they really ***** at inconsistancy and that I can understand being a player myself consistancy is very important.

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TheBoss said:

Ï guess what Im driving at is Im trying to kind of visualize it in kind of a realistic way while maintaing the sort of abstract charm of the game and to maintain some consistancy so that I dont give one player 4 misfortune dice today and 2 three weeks from now for a similiar situation because my players don't mind GM calls but they really ***** at inconsistancy and that I can understand being a player myself consistancy is very important.

To that end, the "Misfortune = Soak Value" might service you well.  Soak (as best I have justified) represents the amount of "coverage" provided by the armor as well as its rigidity (ability to deflect/absorb blows).  The more rigid your armor and the more of your body it covers, the less freedom of movement you will have.  Food for thought.

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You may want to make it Soak - 1 = misfortune. Clothing has a soak of 1. 

Something like two misfortune for every soak over two (or (Soak -2) * 2 = misfortune) would probably work better, actually. That better reinforces the trope of the leather-wearing thief.

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@ TheBoss     I love the idea of having a deck of Narrators rules cards for quick reference.  I have a couple for common things such as what the dice symbols mean and what you can do as a maneuver but a full deck with things such as encumbrance rules to weapons DR and CR.  I really like this idea and am going to start looking into it.

As for the penalty for wearing armor while sneaking I'm the type that just rolls with it as the situation arises.  Depending on how well roleplayed the situation is and what the description entails sneaking in armor could bring anywhere from one to 3 misfortune.  I'd personally make the check for sneaking in full plate or gromril a hard check and just throw 3 challenge dice at them with some misfortune dice for good measure.  I find it very unlikely that a person could effectively sneak in full plate armor regardless of their agility.

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The Strolling Bones said:

I love the idea of having a deck of Narrators rules cards for quick reference.  I have a couple for common things such as what the dice symbols mean and what you can do as a maneuver but a full deck with things such as encumbrance rules to weapons DR and CR.  I really like this idea and am going to start looking into it.

a while ago i used strange eons to create cards for:

corruption rules

corruption exposure levels

encumberance example

fatigue & stress

fear & terror

full nights recovery

immediate care

insanity

long term care

morale

opposed checks

preventing  permanent insanity

strained

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You may want to make it Soak - 1 = misfortune. Clothing has a soak of 1. 

Something like two misfortune for every soak over two (or (Soak -2) * 2 = misfortune) would probably work better, actually. That better reinforces the trope of the leather-wearing thief.

I had forgotten that clothing gives 1 Soak, probably because I ignored that in my games as seeming awkward.

[soak -1] probably works okay.

Actually, thinking about your "leather-wearning thief" point, I would be inclined to rule that only "mail" and "plate" armors would give their Soak in Misfortune Dice whereas "leather" and "cloth" do not, being so much lighter and more supple.

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Well Im a fan of avoiding as much as possible at the table.  I decided to go with challenge dice as this makes more sense than fortune dice, after all fortune dice are more of abstract, kind of external difficulties where as challenge is more along the lines of how hard something is to do.  So for example stealth while wearing Plate Mail is next to impossible so that would 4 challnge dice, I would imagine that to be a appopriate, given that it would in fact be next to impossible in such heavy, metal outfit to try to be sneaky.  But I have decided to create seperate cards for different skills because while for example stealth while wearing plate might be next to impossible to acomplish, things like Riding or Athletics are more fluid and probobly carry lesser penalties depending on the circumstances.

As for making the deck, ya Im using the Location card type to create the "GM Rules Deck" using Strange EONs.  I don't have so many cards yet, but really they kind of work like flash cards.. aka you use them two or three times after which you kind of memorize them and no longer need them.

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