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diablo666

Mask of Vice in COTDPR is VERY overpowered!!

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Hello,everyone.

Our gaming group played a couple games of Arkham last night with the new COTDPR (Curse of the Dark Pharaoh Revised) and one of the investigators got the Mask of Vice.We quickly realized how powerful this item is and used it as much as possible before the ancient one awoke.

Unless we are missing something this item seems to allow to you go to the general store or the curiositie shoppe,draw the three items (unique or common) then exhaust your mask of vice to take one of them without paying for it.I have to say that all of the people in our group thought that this item is broken!!

I realize that there is only one copy of this item in the entire exhibit deck but that does not change the fact that once an investigator acquires this item then the game completely changes because investigators can get a free item EVERY turn once the investigator with this item gets to a shop.WOW!!!

Any other opinions would be welcome on this mask and I am very curious what others think of it.

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Without knowing the specific wording on the card I can't make a comment on it being overpowered but an investigator that spends all his time shopping is a waste in my opinion.  Sealing gates > shopping.

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 Any Phase: Exhaust this card to gain any Common Item or Unique Item you currently have the opportunity to purchase without paying for it.

Someone could probably argue that you don't have the opportunity to purchase an item if you don't have the money for it, but that seems silly. "Hmm, I can totally steal that motorcycle, but I can't steal that tommy gun because I don't have enough money...". That said, it's only one of 22 Exhibit Items. If it shows up at the beginning of the game, sure, you'll probably get a good number of free items. I don't think the number of games where you can get the mask AND get more than one really good item AND not have had a better use for your time is significant.

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Musha Shukou said:

 I would definitely say that if you don't have enough money to pay for it then you don't have the opportunity to purchase it and thus can't use the mask.

Regardless, that's a hideous card...  It's like drawing two alchemies, at *worst*  It's not game breaking...  But I would argue that it's easily one of the strongest items in the game.

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EvilAmarant7x said:

I don't think the number of games where you can get the mask AND get more than one really good item AND not have had a better use for your time is significant.



That's pretty much the only reason I'm not outraged ;')

How frequently do exhibit items appear with the new exp?

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Dam said:

Just mix/leave in the old Exhibit Items as well, that's dilute the odds nicely lengua.gif .



Hmmm...  Maaaybe.  I'd have to see the differences between them.

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I definitely do NOT think you need to have the money in order to steal something with this mask.  Saying you do sounds like some cheap cop-out rule lawyering, IMHO.

You "have the opportunity" to purchase all three of the items you draw when you visit these stores.  You drew them, and IF you have the money, you can buy any one of them.  If not, you still had the opportunity to buy each, just not the means.  That's like saying you don't have the opportunity to roll a 6 unless you actually roll a 6.  Bull.  Every time the die is rolled there's an opportunity for it to come up 6.

Personally, I think the issue here is that the ability to troll the deck for cards is broken.  Has been for a long time.  With the right mix of investigators, even having the money isn't an issue.  This mask might exacerbate things by allowing pretty much anyone to "get" an item each visit (as opposed to just the rich), but the main game-breaker is the same old "fishing through the unique item deck for elder signs" issue that has plagued the game since day one.

The old fix of "kicked to the curb if you don't buy anything" is circumvented by this card, of course, so you'd have to come up with something else to discourage players from trolling the deck.  Perhaps "kicked to the curb if you don't PAY for something" - you can steal all you want but if you don't buy something at the same time, Ma's a gonna get herself her shotty. =P

Or you could just say "c'mon guys, trolling the deck is lame and we all know it."

Or, you could remove that card if it really bugs you.  I'm sure the rest of the expansion is great without it.

Or, you could just not buy the revised expansion (but that's for lame lamey pants with no cashola =P)

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It's very powerful, but I think that's fine.

As others have mentioned, while your character is hanging out in the Curiosity Shoppe shopping, he's not gathering clues or closing gates.

What's more, to get that Mask of Vice, you've already spent time hanging out in street areas hoping for an encounter to give you an Exhibit Item, in the hopes of drawing something powerful like the Mask of Vice.  Getting this item means having a character waste a substantial amount of time in the hopes of getting lucky. Frankly, if Exhibit Items weren't so powerful no one would bother to look for them.

Sure, sometimes you might get lucky and get this on your first Ancient Whispers draw.  But then, sometimes you shop and get an Elder Sign, or sometimes you random-draw investigators and get Mandy, Patrice, and Joe.  It's a game of both strategy and luck. 

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Vylanis said:

It's very powerful, but I think that's fine.

What's more, to get that Mask of Vice, you've already spent time hanging out in street areas hoping for an encounter to give you an Exhibit Item, in the hopes of drawing something powerful like the Mask of Vice.  Getting this item means having a character waste a substantial amount of time in the hopes of getting lucky.



Or the multiple Elder Sign substitutes that now don't even disappear if you fail your sealing role with them.  If the new mechanics for Exhibit Items make their distribution easy, this is just going to be another Lurkeresque guardian in disguise...

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I was disappointed in how strong this Mask was, and how the Allies were changed. I will probably use the original versions as they weren't particularly game-breaking.

Can you take an item that you couldn't otherwise afford? Perhaps. But really, the Mask should then be discarded, not exhausted.

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Tibs said:

I was disappointed in how strong this Mask was, and how the Allies were changed. I will probably use the original versions as they weren't particularly game-breaking.

Can you take an item that you couldn't otherwise afford? Perhaps. But really, the Mask should then be discarded, not exhausted.



Well...  That would be too weak.  But a three use item would be reasonable.

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yeah that definitely does seem overpowered... but then again the investigators need to get lucky once in a while...

personally it should be a discard or at max 2 time use item (once at common/unique shop?)...maybe let you draw 5 items to choose at each shop...the card could have been tweaked many different ways... but they way they chose was this hehe...seems kinda odd... could just be Discard/Exhaust mistake...

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RocksLikeToast said:

yeah that definitely does seem overpowered... but then again the investigators need to get lucky once in a while...

;'D No they don't.  The game should slurp down bones clean.

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Though undeniably it is a very good item I would say that it seems to be reasonable in regards to how difficult it is to obtain. If Playing with the herald then a 1/22 chance of obtaining this item also constitutes a 66% chance (provided you aren't blessed) of becoming cursed with a -1 stamina penalty each turn. 

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It might be a little early to draw conclusions about whether the card will break the game.  I remember just before Innsmouth came out, people were worried about the Deep Ones Rising mechanic and Trish's skill sliders.  Once the expansion had been out for a few weeks, fears subsided.   (Now Black Goat, on the other hand...)

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Trish's sliders looked complicated and turned out not to be. But they didn't look game-breaking.

Deep One mechanic looked scary, but not game-breaking. Well it is on rare occasion when the track fills on turn 1 or 2.

But someone with this mask could simply go to the Curiosity Shoppe and rip them off. He could roll out with Elder Signs and magical weapons galore. Take the ordinary tactic of "shop when you have money" and triple it. It'll be easy to obtain the weapons needed to annihilate some Ancient Ones.

And I'm not swayed by the 1 in 22 argument. Now that Exhibit Items have a guaranteed vector, this mask will probably see use quite frequently. And the herald is optional too. I know I will only see him one in every 9 games.

Luckily I have my old set so that I can choose which version of each thing I don't like will be included in the set.

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Here's another possibility: if you go to the store (and (ex hypothesi) have the opportunity to buy any of the three items drawn), could you, for example, pay money to buy one of them and use the mask to pick up another?  If not, this may provide a wedge against the generous reading of "have the opportunity"

(I realize that this is sort of a stretch, and am otherwise inclined to believe that one does have the opportunity to buy items that one cannot afford.  I'll probably just always use the herald.)

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Tibs said:

Trish's sliders looked complicated and turned out not to be. But they didn't look game-breaking.

Deep One mechanic looked scary, but not game-breaking. Well it is on rare occasion when the track fills on turn 1 or 2.

But someone with this mask could simply go to the Curiosity Shoppe and rip them off. He could roll out with Elder Signs and magical weapons galore. Take the ordinary tactic of "shop when you have money" and triple it. It'll be easy to obtain the weapons needed to annihilate some Ancient Ones.

And I'm not swayed by the 1 in 22 argument. Now that Exhibit Items have a guaranteed vector, this mask will probably see use quite frequently. And the herald is optional too. I know I will only see him one in every 9 games.

Luckily I have my old set so that I can choose which version of each thing I don't like will be included in the set.



Yeah...  I think I'm probably going to make this mask a banned item along with Call Ancient One ;'D

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avec said:

I'm just saying, It's a bit drastic to ban a card before it even hits the table.  Give it a chance.



I didn't say definitely, I said probably.  I need to see how easy it is to get exhibit items first.  I hope it's not easy (badly designed)...  Because if it is, trawling the deck for the Elder Scrolls will be a bad joke...  I'd give FFG the benefit of the doubt, but, after the Lurker "Herald."  Eh, I'm less inclined to do so.  (Obviously I still don't have my copy).

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