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greybinder

What happened to all of the old familiar faces?

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Very interested here in the big ECB Standard tournament.  I'll be skipping any draft events that may come up, but throwing down in standard against you rurals is always a pleasure.

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Meh.

As everybody mentioned there have been several blows that made me all but lose interest in the game - which is sad considering I started playing when I was a mere neophyte.

The last blow, as dumb as it sounds, is I don't really like this formats for this board. The older ones where much better....eh, what are you gonna do.

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This thread actually just makes me sad. i see both Wrecking Ball and Advent and think "Cool! i miss those guys." Who then both remind us why they don't show up anymore.

*sigh*

Myself, I really want to start the whole Standard format ruleset, since so many of us are playing. Legacy is okay, but not the same. LCG is challenging, but I can see why some of you gave up the ghost. And if the choice is LCG vs. nothing, honestly, I will take LCG. I enjoy the game, and I enjoy the new challenges of deck building.

WB, how is Vintage GoT going? I have to admit I'd forgotten about it.

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JerusalemJones said:

This thread actually just makes me sad. i see both Wrecking Ball and Advent and think "Cool! i miss those guys." Who then both remind us why they don't show up anymore.

Lol. I'll be around. The community here is great. I actually started missing the discussions here.

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JerusalemJones said:

WB, how is Vintage GoT going? I have to admit I'd forgotten about it.

I think it died a pretty quick death. There didn't seem to be a coherent plan anyway. It devolved pretty quickly from people naming cards they essentially did and didn't like to everyone kind of taking it to a local level in their individual metas.

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ktom said:

JerusalemJones said:

WB, how is Vintage GoT going? I have to admit I'd forgotten about it.

 

I think it died a pretty quick death. There didn't seem to be a coherent plan anyway. It devolved pretty quickly from people naming cards they essentially did and didn't like to everyone kind of taking it to a local level in their individual metas.

I can see that. Myself, I've always wanted to start some sort of Standard format discussion, since so many of us are actually still playing some form of Standard (andI think just about everyone agrees it is Iron Throne block to present). I was talking with Nate about this the other day, and how so many of us play the format. I tend to think of standard as the format that we don't get prize support for.

As for Vintage, its really just another name for Classic. Again, a format FFG doesn't provide prize support for. Classic Highlander is now Legacy, and my only complaint about Highlander is the inability to rup dupes, which seems like a big part of Thrones. I don't really play Classic much anymore, but I sure do miss Valyrian block.

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Hey what happend to the tzumainn webpage? The Ravens song CP are released a long time and still no List on the tzumainn page. Does anyone still take care about the webpage?

Is agot going downhill? I have noticed that these boards are pretty empty for last few weeks. Just few questions here and there and few more topics. I know that LCG a whole different format, but I thought that there will be more players here by now.

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I think it's pretty clear that FFG hit AGOT with a bus. When this didn't kill it, FFG stabbed AGOT with a knife; when the game still wasn't dead, FFG took out it's shot gun and put a hole through it's head. Still, the game lingers on, but due to FFG's "strategic vision," this game has really been damaged beyond repair.

I think the worst blow was the switch to these forums, in part because the new forums are so crappy and in part because the old forums were in the same place for so long that players who came and went nevertheless knew where to find the game when they eventually came back. Now, the community is buried under lots of crap where new players won't find it and old players are discouraged to venture.

In short, I think a pair of freshmen business school students could navigate this game and its future better than the Spaniard, or whoever called the shots, has done. Kudos to him...he reminds me of former President GW Bush running an oil company.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post. Yet another illustration of how crappy these forums are. Anyone wanna delete the first post?

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I think there may be a "forest for the trees" thing here. The way I see it, the game is fine; it's the community that's going downhill.

Don't take offense or anything. That's not a comment on the people and I'm not trying to say that we, the members of the community, have failed in any way. What I'm saying is that, design cycles and changes in distribution strategies aside, the game is still essentially the same as it ever was. The community has changed significantly, though.

To me, the reason is that the level of competition dropped dramatically. The abrupt shift in the "primary format" from standard to LCG was shocking enough, but in the end, people would have "stayed" if the level of competition had been acceptably satisfying for them. The LCG card pool wasn't enough to maintain a widespread, competitive interest in the game, though. So different metas and locales decided on their own competitive card pools and, quite honestly, drew inward as a result. The game has shifted to a more local and casual play environment. And who needs to participate on discussion boards for that? Instead of one big community, we're now a bunch of small communities (more like "play groups") with little or no reason to mix.

Think of it this way, most people in bowling leagues have no desire to try their luck in regional or national competitions. That's not what bowling night is for. Most people in bowling leagues therefore have no reason or desire to find online communities and discussion groups to supplement league night. Does that mean bowling, as a game, is going downhill? No, just that people play it for different reasons than they would play a CCG.

Something similar is happening here. LCG or no, the business model and support programs are more akin to a board game, and a board game community is what is going to result. So yeah, the CCG community is going downhill. I'm not sure that means the game bleeding out, though.

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ktom said:

So yeah, the CCG community is going downhill. I'm not sure that means the game bleeding out, though.

Unless, of course, there isn't a soul within 500 miles of you that has any interest in playing the game on a consistent basis...  That kind of just throws everything right out the window.

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Deathjester26 said:

ktom said:

 

So yeah, the CCG community is going downhill. I'm not sure that means the game bleeding out, though.

 

 

Unless, of course, there isn't a soul within 500 miles of you that has any interest in playing the game on a consistent basis...  That kind of just throws everything right out the window.

That's part of it, really. The smaller, casual communities are less available to new players because they don't mix or even look outside themselves much. There may be four guys who play regularly down the block and you'd never know.

I guess a bunch of it depends on what you think of as "downhill" for the game. The model has changed completely, so we can't judge the health of the game the way we did in the CCG days. Quite honestly, it's not about the larger community anymore.

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Regarding Mainn's website, he plans to keep it current, he just didn't know that the latest chapter pack was out. I have sent him the spoilers someone else posted, but I need to add the card numbers so it's complete --hopefully I'll get to that soon.

As for the criticism of FFG's handling of this game, I think generally people are being too harsh. From what I understand this game is not a financial success for FFG and yet is still supported in a large part due to genuine fondness within the walls of FFG for the game and it's loyal player base. This game is probably barely a blip compared to their big box board game business and the other properties they have licenses for.  So we have the game in the LCG format, which was CPR for Call of Cthulu (that game was going to be canceled until the asylum packs --which were just suppose to distribute already developed cards before the game would cease being supported-- did better than expected), which came with some compromises but also means new cardboard and official support (e.g., organized play and a dedicated forum).  Especially in a bad economy, I think it would be very easy from a completely objective business view for FFG to pull the plug on marginally successful games and I bet AGoT would fall in that camp.  I'm fine with and understand that some people liked the game how it was but don't like how it now is, but attacking FFG isn't going to turn back the clock and isn't going to help win FFG over to continue support of this game for those who are still enjoying it.

As for why there isn't a flurry of new people on these boards, I agree with Ktom. A board game player who buys AGOT and sees it as just another game in his collection to play with friends is not likely to join a forum dedicated to one game. I see questions about rules and deck customization over at boardgamegeek.com. That's the Walmart for board gamers in search of info and answers (not meant as a knock on BGG, I love that site). Maybe over time some will get into the customization of the game more, which is the point where the Storyline League and other organized play may start to appeal to them, and we'll see some pop up here.

 

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here are the numbers:

 

Dawn F61

Northern Scavengers F62 (3x)

Grand Maester Pycell F63

Renly Baratheon F64

Kraznys mo Nakloz F65 (oddly enough i had a typo when i first typed his name in....go figure)

Samwell Tarly F66

Fights no sword can win F67 (3x)

The Raven's Message F 68 (3x)

At the Point of a Blade F69 (3x)

Winterfell rookery F70 (3x)

Lannisport Rooker F71 (3x)

Dragonstone Rookery F72 (3x)

Island rookery F73 (3x)

Qartheen Rookery F 74 (3x)

Rookery of Sunspear F75 (3x)

Vale Rookery F76

Heart of the Kingdom F77

The Tower of Joy F78

Desolate Passage F79

The Raven's Song F80

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Thank you Lars for your help, I think we all appreciate it.

Just for the explanation, I am not critisizing FFG for the move they made. I wa just curious about the latest development of the game and how others feel about it. In our country where is only one very small shop with AGoT we had a lot of troubles to adjusting to the new rules. Our meta was growing, very slowly but was growing. Two years ago there were just 2 or 3 players in the whole country. Last year we had about 20 players. But then the sudded change of the FFG policy changed everything. Now we have about 25 players but a lot of them is inactvive. We have one larger group in one town and an other in a different town, but here where I am from, where 6 or 7 players used to play, now I am lucky if I have one game a week with the same guy. A lot of them is just disappointed with the changes and the way the game is going.

In order to maintain the community together our NW after a public vote agreed to play Standart format as our league format, because that was the only way to keep the players together, partialy because they didnt wanted the changes and partialy because it is really hard for us to get the cards early, since we have no real shop here in whole country. We have to buy cards online with certain delay, shipping and possibly taxing the package. And that makes it all hard to get it, also the latest exchange rate USD/CZK is not very good.

Now everyone is scared what will happen with the game and for a while we were unable to win more players for the game. People does not want to spend much money on the game that might end within a year.

So dont get me wrong but I am still not convinced that the move to LCG was good for us.

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same here!

we always had a very active meta here in salzburg. there is absolutely no interest in playing LCG format. if i (as the NW) would have organized such tourneys, playing AGOT would have stopped. no chance at all to continue. so we decided to play standard.

i dont mind the whole LCG thing. its okay for new players. but for us veterans its a big blow. running in parallels would be perfect, but for some reaons FFG doesnt want this (Legacy doesnt count!).

btw: since i know that at least in europe many metas also play the standrad format, i will organize another Tourney of Stahleck. and even if it looses the European Championship status, the main event will be standard.

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btw: since i know that at least in europe many metas also play the standrad format, i will organize another Tourney of Stahleck. and even if it looses the European Championship status, the main event will be standard.

Hey that would be great, I hope I could make it there this year. But as always it is just about time and money happy.gif

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Twn2dn said:

I think it's pretty clear that FFG hit AGOT with a bus. When this didn't kill it, FFG stabbed AGOT with a knife; when the game still wasn't dead, FFG took out it's shot gun and put a hole through it's head. Still, the game lingers on, but due to FFG's "strategic vision," this game has really been damaged beyond repair.

I think the worst blow was the switch to these forums, in part because the new forums are so crappy and in part because the old forums were in the same place for so long that players who came and went nevertheless knew where to find the game when they eventually came back. Now, the community is buried under lots of crap where new players won't find it and old players are discouraged to venture.

In short, I think a pair of freshmen business school students could navigate this game and its future better than the Spaniard, or whoever called the shots, has done. Kudos to him...he reminds me of former President GW Bush running an oil company.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post. Yet another illustration of how crappy these forums are. Anyone wanna delete the first post?

I could not say this better ... Well done...

I'm observing this game only due to fact that I have still cards and prefer to sell them then burn them all (however it will be much faster solution :)

Now my local meta moved fully to L5R so I will never play again and leave this forum as soon as I sell everything. It's amasing how easy it is possible to kill very interesting game, how couple of mistakes can cancel whole community leaving some loyal fans and very little newcomers. We have LCG for a while and we can finally say that FFG failed again and yes this game will be much better managed by group of fans than in current state. As I said before it's only question of time when they will announce the end of story and hopefully license can be bought by some loyal fans or whoever who can develope this according to rules.

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It´s so annoying that the few players who quit or are just very fed up with the game, are so prominent on these forums.

I don´t even know anymore how often I had to read that berto has converted to L5R  sad.gif

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well the blantent negativity is bad enough....only posting that the game is dead or i hate the direction (i.e. slowly rolling downhill) the game went, when you are only seeing it from one side (ignoring the fact that you might have choose to left it, but others have choose to pick it up SOLELY for the change) is also pretty funny. But by far, my favorite is that Berto (at least) still asserts to know what the power level cards are.

 

Look i think Ktom was mostly right. I think the health of the game cannot be determined by the forums. I know in my area i've seen more people playing AGoT in our store then i have in a while. Since January we've had 10 (with one demo that didn't stick and one old player with a wistful look in his eyes) different and individual people playing the game. Thats a lot more then the 3 we had going into last GenCon and about as many as we had during our ITE limited league (when i first started). We have 3 more regulars now for a total of 6 and we play a lot fo different formats. I know the game has to be selling a little bit becuase there are lots of new player rules questions on two different forums.

Where i'd disagree with Ktom is in his characterization of the community right now. Yes its weaker, but i don't think it has to do with the casual/compitive nature of anything. If you look at the boardgame threads, the popular board games are posting faster or as fast as wee did a few months ago on the old forums. The posting community is just in transitation and i think the feeling of being new to a game is what is limiting some of the conversation then the level of play. Its hard to have a power level discussion when you only seen the cards for a few weeks or months, give it time there will be some. I'll use the mutant chronicles forums as my last example. when the game was released there were a few regualr posters. Maybe 5-10. Now there are a whole bunch with a lot of them creating some unique and interesting things to talk about. Its not flying, like a new topic every day, but everyday i'm interested in reading what others have posted there.

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Lars said:

But by far, my favorite is that Berto (at least) still asserts to know what the power level cards are.

~You know there are only a few gifted people who found that well of wisdom. ;-)

I think the community in general needs some time to expand again, a lot of old players quit the game, new players are slowly coming to the boards. For the first few weeks i felt somehow like a co-moderator on these boards.  But that´s so much better today- it became more time consuming to regulary check all topics. ;-)

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I check these boards everyday, but rarely do I ever have anything to say.  It's incredibly difficult to discuss cards (ie. the Carrion Bird discussion) when I've only been able to play 3 times since Gencon.

The game is in a transition (still).  It's dying or dead in some places, but growing in others.  I recognize that.  Unfortunately, as old players and metas begin to vanish, the close feelings we all used to share as a community will go with them.  I loved how much this one game was able to unite people from all over.  Most of us consider each other friends, but have only met once or twice (or perhaps never).

Two major factors to that closeness were:  1)  Traveling to tournies and 2)  The boards.  While the willingness to travel to tournies has taken a hit (the jury is still out on how true that statement is), I don't think the changes made to the boards will prevent people from forming friendships.  Hopefully, the remaining metas (as well as new ones that pop up) will be able to keep/create close ties to each other.  Overall, I don't think the game is dead or dying.  It's just still being reborn.

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