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Gillam Harrow

Khornite Psykers?

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I know how improbable this sounds, seeing how the Red God really really really hates psykers in general, but could it happen that an individual psyker with a focus on destructive techniques and a suitibly violent, crazed, and murderous mindset recieve the Favor of Khorne? Blood Pact Gore Mages seem to fit this bill very well. Is there any canon to support this, or, failing supporting canon, any non canon ideas for how this might happen?

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There may be Undivided Sorcerers with a leaning towards Khorne (Bloodletters usually don't summon themselves), but Khorne himself does not sponsor or mark Sorcerors, has not done so and will not do so in the future.

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SomVone said:

 Not quite true actually.

There is Khornate sorcery in the novel Blood Pact, though most of it is just from a renegade psyker.

Yeah and terminators can do backflips......(I assume it comes from a novel?)

Khorne doesnt do psykers. A psyker might believe differently, but its a really good excuse to simply kill off the wannabe skull.

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What's depicted in Blood Pact actually looks a lot more like some sort of 'blood magic'. And while I'm fully aware that novels aren't necessarily canon, it really does strike me as the kind of thing that Khorne would be down with.

The primary component to pretty much everything the witch does is blood. Even the regular folks use it in a few dimple but effective powers. And they talk about "Gore Mages". Khorne is pretty set in his ways sometimes, but I think that if you spilled enough blood while doing it he would be fine with some sorcery.

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short no

all true canon says no, cant even see why warrior-blood god would ever want one.

blood related sorcery how ever thats not khorne thats just sorcery

maybe its like khorne realy doesn`t like them but whatever leader type person of the warband knows there usefulness and there for keeps them around. just a thought!

well of too slay and gain power

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As the description of the Sorceror for Black Crusade says:

"Many of these Heretics have made the deliberate decision
to dedicate their lives to Slaneesh, Nurgle, or Tzeentch, though
some choose to avoid dedicating themselves to a particular
power. Khorne, however, specifically obliterates any psyker
who would beseech him for power."

It's simply the way it is, there are no Khorne sorcerers in the TT or anywhere else. There are just people who summon daemons of Khorne. Don't ask me why.

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Mjoellnir said:

As the description of the Sorceror for Black Crusade says:

"Many of these Heretics have made the deliberate decision
to dedicate their lives to Slaneesh, Nurgle, or Tzeentch, though
some choose to avoid dedicating themselves to a particular
power. Khorne, however, specifically obliterates any psyker
who would beseech him for power."

It's simply the way it is, there are no Khorne sorcerers in the TT or anywhere else. There are just people who summon daemons of Khorne. Don't ask me why.

Well, Bloodletters have to get summoned to the battlefield somehow.  By your quote, Khorne obliterates psykers.  However, a sorceror does not need to be a psyker.  (Though many are...)  A Khorne worshipping non-psyker, or an undivided follower, has to have some rite available to pull Khornate daemons to realspace.  So, I'd certainly see blood magic of some sort...  World Eaters librarians = no, just no.  Blood sorcerors = ok. 

Just my 2 thrones worth.

- V.

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Hi,

Ok my 40k lore is by no means extensive but with regards to demon summoning for khorne...

IIRC in previous releases in the Warhammer setting, WFRP, WFRP2e and the old ROC books, there were a variety of blood fueled artifacts that could be used for the summoning of demons. Bloodstones that could be activated with fresh blood and Demon Weapons containing khornate entities spring to mind. Presumably Khorne may have invested in the creation of even more powerful blood feuled summoning artifacts, scattered across the galaxy?

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Summoning Daemons doesn't require the person doing it to have psychic powers, so let's please nix that idea right now. Summoning Daemons involves weakening the barrier between the Warp and reality enough so that Daemons can push through and be sustained long enough to serve a purpose. The methods for doing this are highly varied, but not all of them require psychic powers.

I think it's safe to assume that there won't be any Khornate psykers in this game.

BYE

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Summonuing daemons isnt truly summoning.

As HBMC said, you simply create enough slaughter on the battlefield and the daemons get attracted to this carnage.

Binding a daemon into a weapon can also be simply besting the daemon in a battle of wills and forcing him to remain within said weapon. Which also isnt necessarily sorcery.

Khorne himself can potentially crush a daemon of his once a year or so for lacking services of blood collection (gran_risa.gif) and binds them by pure will alone into a weapon which then gets gifted to one of his champions.

 

Just because it involves blood (daemons) doesnt make it sorcery.

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I think that its down to various blood rites and certain unholy Khornite items i do remember in realms of chao's there where items called blood stones.

I imagine the other way to summon them is kill a bunch load of people and then start drawing Khorne symbols in the blood and start shouting " BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD " very loudly. demonio.gif

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Vandegraffe said:

Mjoellnir said:

 

As the description of the Sorceror for Black Crusade says:

"Many of these Heretics have made the deliberate decision
to dedicate their lives to Slaneesh, Nurgle, or Tzeentch, though
some choose to avoid dedicating themselves to a particular
power. Khorne, however, specifically obliterates any psyker
who would beseech him for power."

It's simply the way it is, there are no Khorne sorcerers in the TT or anywhere else. There are just people who summon daemons of Khorne. Don't ask me why.

 

 

Well, Bloodletters have to get summoned to the battlefield somehow.  By your quote, Khorne obliterates psykers.  However, a sorceror does not need to be a psyker. 


 

Hi Vandegraffe,

The quoated statement is form the sorcerer entry in BC. So I guess that you can subsititute Psyker&Sorcerer and Khorn will not abide. 

@Summoning Khorne Daemons
In on of the Chaos Spacemarine Codex of the TT (in fact, the one where they first introduced veteran skills for CSM) their was a short story that included the "appearance" of some Khorne Daemons on the battlefield. No ritual was involved, all of the killing and blood spilling in his name was enough. 

In DH, their -is- a ritual to summon a bloodletter, so. From this, I guess their is a difference between Rituals and Sorcery. Which is rules-wise totally correct, since you do not need to have any Psy-Rating or Sorcery Talent to conduct a ritual. Well, at least in regard to those officially published.

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 It never really made sense to me why Khorne would hate psykers or sorcerers. Khorne is still a being/force of the Warp and psychic powers a a human mind connecting to the Warp. Sorcerers are a part of how daemons contact and interact with the materium as well. Psychic powers can also be very warlike in nature, as much or more so than technology. It would make more sense for Khorne to bar its followers from using technology or ranged weapons - you're only allowed to run into battle with a sword - no guns, spaceships, tanks, etc. 

But, we all know what the fluff is, and the fluff says that there are no Khorne sorcerers or psykers and that Khorne hates them all. That said, it doesn't mean that you can't introduce such ideas into your own games if you so desire.

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Sergeant Brother said:

 It never really made sense to me why Khorne would hate psykers or sorcerers. Khorne is still a being/force of the Warp and psychic powers a a human mind connecting to the Warp. Sorcerers are a part of how daemons contact and interact with the materium as well. Psychic powers can also be very warlike in nature, as much or more so than technology. It would make more sense for Khorne to bar its followers from using technology or ranged weapons - you're only allowed to run into battle with a sword - no guns, spaceships, tanks, etc. 

But, we all know what the fluff is, and the fluff says that there are no Khorne sorcerers or psykers and that Khorne hates them all. That said, it doesn't mean that you can't introduce such ideas into your own games if you so desire.

I think it's because of both his very straightforward nature and his preference for seeing beings torn to bloody pieces rather than, say, incinerated.

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Simple answer, although it may have been said before. Khorne hates Tezneech  & Papa Nurgle hats Slaneesh. Oh dont flame if I spelt it wrong please, no books in front of me.

The more complex answer is that they are chaos gods fickle annoying and thats what GW wants, besides could you imagine a beserker Psyker foaming at the mouth casting doom bolt after doom bolt......er hang on a tic that would be kinda cool darn

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 Simple answer, although it may have been said before. Khorne hates Tezneech & Papa Nurgle hats Slaneesh. Oh dont flame if I spelt it wrong please, no books in front of me.

Although those would be the obvious pairs, it's exactly the other way around: The "official" rivalries are Khorne and Slaanesh (brutality and simplicity versus refinement and hedonism) as well as Tzeentch and Nurgle (hope and will to change versus despair and acceptance of the status quo).

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Cifer said:

 Simple answer, although it may have been said before. Khorne hates Tezneech & Papa Nurgle hats Slaneesh. Oh dont flame if I spelt it wrong please, no books in front of me.

Although those would be the obvious pairs, it's exactly the other way around: The "official" rivalries are Khorne and Slaanesh (brutality and simplicity versus refinement and hedonism) as well as Tzeentch and Nurgle (hope and will to change versus despair and acceptance of the status quo).

There are MANY ways of phrasing the rivalries and the to be honest it makes a good graph to determine where a player should focus their godly worship if unsure.

You have Freedom/Control, Simplicity/Refinement and Brutality/Hedonism for Khorne/Slaneesh.

You then have Hope/Despair, Change/Status Quo and Creation/Entropy for Tzeentch/Nurgle.

If you put these pairings on the x and y axis of a 4 way graph and ask your players some multiple choice questions, then plot their answers on the graph before finally drawing a line of correlation you should be able to tell them which God's style they would be best suited to.

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Morangias said:


I think it's because of both his very straightforward nature and his preference for seeing beings torn to bloody pieces rather than, say, incinerated.

Although, in a way, blasting somebody with your mind is more straightforward than using a gun. Guns need to be bought, loaded, maintained, cleaned, reloaded, supplied with ammo, repaired, etc. With an offensive psychic power, well, its the power of your fury being made manifest and destroying your enemy.

 

Cain said:

Simple answer, although it may have been said before. Khorne hates Tezneech  & Papa Nurgle hats Slaneesh. Oh dont flame if I spelt it wrong please, no books in front of me.

The more complex answer is that they are chaos gods fickle annoying and thats what GW wants, besides could you imagine a beserker Psyker foaming at the mouth casting doom bolt after doom bolt......er hang on a tic that would be kinda cool darn

 

I think the image would go particularly well with a pyromancer style psyker. His hatred burns with such passion that it manifests as heat and flame. As the berkserker psyker seethes with rage, items around him smolder and burn and his enemies burst into flame.

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Sergeant Brother said:

 

Although, in a way, blasting somebody with your mind is more straightforward than using a gun. Guns need to be bought, loaded, maintained, cleaned, reloaded, supplied with ammo, repaired, etc. With an offensive psychic power, well, its the power of your fury being made manifest and destroying your enemy.

 

Beyond the fact, that sorcery actually requires study and the training of the mind.

Khorne Berzerkers are partly lobotomized.....nope doesnt add up.

GW basically designed sorcery as alot of poring over books, which is something that doesnt fit with Khorne at all. If you as a gaming group want to invent instinctive/natural sorcery you are free to do so, but its not 40k as presented anymore.

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Voronesh said:

 

Beyond the fact, that sorcery actually requires study and the training of the mind.

Khorne Berzerkers are partly lobotomized.....nope doesnt add up.

GW basically designed sorcery as alot of poring over books, which is something that doesnt fit with Khorne at all. If you as a gaming group want to invent instinctive/natural sorcery you are free to do so, but its not 40k as presented anymore.

Though any sort of combat that would be effective in a high tech era also involves study and training the mind - from learning to aim a firearm, to small unit tactics, to martial arts - it requires training and discipline. 

Also, not every Khorne worshiper is a berserker. Most Khorne worshipers presumably know how to use the sights on a ranged weapon to aim it and also know how to load a magazine. Soldiers depend on advanced technology and engineering for their weapons, I don't see Khorne rejecting guns because you need technicians to build them.

I'm not sure how much study is involved in sorcerery, one might think that it involves lots of study like some mind of mage from D&D, but maybe it might be a matter of receiving magical gifts from daemons for services or maybe its just a different way to manifest psychic powers. I know that being a psyker can come to many people intuitively.

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