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Worst case scenario, you are playing with folks who are strangers and don't accept homebrew cards, plan to play your factual WWII vehicles in a "Counts As" format. This is of course if you really wanted to field the stuff. I'd play my Sherman as a Pounder, (though I wouldn't use jump just for my own suspention of disbelief to hold up), I'd play my Armoured Car as a Heinrich, Etc.

 

That's Worst Case Scenario. Average scenario is you're playing regularly with friends or a gaming group of the same people and they let you homebrew cards.

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Peacekeeper_b said:

FFG loses nothing but the little bit if time it takes to have some of their interns run around do a little play testing and write up a PDFn like when they redid edge of darkness for Dark Heresy from a word codument to a full layout PDF that felt like a real book.

From a retailer perspective I also want FFG to release the same product. I will still sell lots of Dust Stuff to the Dust crowd, but they will also pick up some of 1/48 models to add to their games.

From a FFG perspective, players play Dust for Dust. They will still field lots of core Dust figures and Dust Tournaments are still for Dust figs only as the tournaments represent key struggles and battles of major importance.  And it is fairly simple to go to a WWII model making company and go "you put on your product "Dust Compatible" and we link to each other sites. No one spends anything extra, but both gets extra advertisement."

 

 

I strongly agree with this point of view.

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Who's to say that the 1 armor units are even humans or any type of solider. Could be some type of machine/static defense, dogs, or some other type of swarm enemy. I'm in no hurry for them to bring everything out at once. The 1 armor stat is there. Enough new content is being released that I'm in no hurry to have all of the unaccounted for stats to have units/models attached to them. It'll come.

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mostrojoe said:

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

 

And correct me if I am wrong, but didnt the Axis start the war?

 

 

Well, yes I can correct. The war was started by Germany and Soviet Union that invaded Lithuania, Estonia, Lettonia and Poland. Finland was submitted by Soviet Union too despite heroic resistance.

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

 

And who killed all those ethnic minorities (besides Uncle Joe)?

 

 

And who bombed Dresda?

And who burned in nuclear fire hundreds of thousands of innocent japanese civilians, women, childs, polluting generations of persons? Just to show some muscles to the Soviet Union?

Who committed the most great mass **** of the history as soon as arrived in Berlin?

Who raped hundreds of women in Italy with Patton looking the other side?

 

War is Hell do not go in this discourse.

The USA was invited into the war by the treachery of the AXIS powers. The USA would not have done any of these "atrocities" if we had been left alone. Those innocent people all died because they worked to support the military forces of their nations.

And the USA bombed the Japanese to avoid the deaths of half a million US troops in Operation Olympic. And by bombing them, they shortened the war by many months.

Where did you learn to misinterpret history so blatantly? I did not say that the USA never did bad in the War, but it was not our policy as it was for the Axis, and the Soviets were getting revenge for 4 years of hell under the Nazis.

Do you really think civilians are innocent when they run the war factories and support their soldiers? Give me a break.

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War is Hell do not go in this discourse.

And I will go into any discourse I d--- well please, and if you do not like it you can continue to try to defend the Nazis in your fact-poor manner.

 

As for the normal tanks, vehicles, and troops of WW2, I am not so sure they are so normal anymore. I believe they would be far more technically advanced from the alien tech and the normal flow of progress without Hitler.

I am also one who would like to see tanks etc, but only if they are more advanced and fit the timeline.

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Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

As for the normal tanks, vehicles, and troops of WW2, I am not so sure they are so normal anymore. I believe they would be far more technically advanced from the alien tech and the normal flow of progress without Hitler.

I am also one who would like to see tanks etc, but only if they are more advanced and fit the timeline.

I dont think there is enough VK to support a lack of normal troops. I think the special weapons, equipment and so forth would still be limited to ASOCOM, Majestic 12, Blutkreuz and so forth. Trooper Joe Smoe is still only outfitted with the standard mid-late 1940s gear. But you can field them for half the price.

For me its like the last battle in Captain America: The First Avenger. After the elite special units (Captain America, The Howling Commandoes) break into the Red Skull's compound, then the standard troops arrive to soak up enemy fire and kill a Hydra goon or two in the process. The special troops are your main attack force, the standard guys are your extras and back up.

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zuggzugg said:

Who's to say that the 1 armor units are even humans or any type of solider. Could be some type of machine/static defense, dogs, or some other type of swarm enemy. I'm in no hurry for them to bring everything out at once. The 1 armor stat is there. Enough new content is being released that I'm in no hurry to have all of the unaccounted for stats to have units/models attached to them. It'll come.

Dust Revised Rules Book page 4 "Infantry Armor 1 : Unarmored squads of soldiers that only wear khakis and helmets."

While I would like to see dogs and so forth (the allies would be a cool side to have dogs enhanced to be smart, loyal, fast and aggressive) Just a squad or two of norms would be a nice place to go.

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Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

mostrojoe said:

 

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

 

And correct me if I am wrong, but didnt the Axis start the war?

 

 

Well, yes I can correct. The war was started by Germany and Soviet Union that invaded Lithuania, Estonia, Lettonia and Poland. Finland was submitted by Soviet Union too despite heroic resistance.

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

 

And who killed all those ethnic minorities (besides Uncle Joe)?

 

 

And who bombed Dresda?

And who burned in nuclear fire hundreds of thousands of innocent japanese civilians, women, childs, polluting generations of persons? Just to show some muscles to the Soviet Union?

Who committed the most great mass **** of the history as soon as arrived in Berlin?

Who raped hundreds of women in Italy with Patton looking the other side?

 

War is Hell do not go in this discourse.

 

 

The USA was invited into the war by the treachery of the AXIS powers. The USA would not have done any of these "atrocities" if we had been left alone. Those innocent people all died because they worked to support the military forces of their nations.

And the USA bombed the Japanese to avoid the deaths of half a million US troops in Operation Olympic. And by bombing them, they shortened the war by many months.

Where did you learn to misinterpret history so blatantly? I did not say that the USA never did bad in the War, but it was not our policy as it was for the Axis, and the Soviets were getting revenge for 4 years of hell under the Nazis.

Do you really think civilians are innocent when they run the war factories and support their soldiers? Give me a break.

Thank you Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex. I am sick and tired of that old double standard. Yes, bad thinkgs happen in war, but guess what, we didnt start WWII. We didnt gas 6 million people based on religion. We didnt invade Russia, we didnt attack Pearl Harbor,  we didnt initiate the war. We just won it. We won it by fighting it properly and not *****-footing around (which unfortunately is our current strategy). You fight a wor ruthlessly and with strength and you can end it in 5 years. You try being nice and polite and proper and you wind up being stuck in Afghanistan for 10 years and accomplishing nothing.

Using the Atomic bomb saved millions of American soldiers, marines and sailors from dying in foireign sands. Yes, we destroyed two major cities and killed hundreds of thousands in the process. But Yamamoto even said at Pearl Harbor "We awake a sleeping giant" cause even he knew we were going to fight to win. Yes we blew the hell out of Dresden, the same as teh Nazis did to London. Yes, unfortunate things happened. I dont excuse the ***** and murders, no one can. But if we want to start piling blame for any of these things, there is a very short man from Austria who deserves the blame. not America.

Personally I hate and despise everything the Nazis did. But I also hate the fact that FFG is white washing the Axis. We need to remind ourselves that while not every german was a jew murdering rapist psychopath, the regime in itself was evil. And everytime we pay some sort of homage to the war forces of the Germans of WW2 we need to keep in mind they were bad. Not misunderstood. Not just self righteous and so forth.

Paolo Parente's website and his original work show the Blutkreuz forces and the Von Thalers as nazis. It was only FFGs PR decision to remove the "N" word from the game setting.

From a fiscal/public image game stance it makes sense. Its one of the reasons Rackham went with AT-43 over Dust. But let us not forget who these goose steppers really are.

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On Nazi.....
 Iam Jew so no one can accuse me of being Nazi sympathiser  , but to make things clear - there is difference betwen Nazi Government and party / Waffen SS / and Wehrmacht  
Nazi party and Waffen SS where evil cowardly fighting bastards - that's true.They where prosecuted , and found guilty.
Krigsmarine, Wehrmacht and mostly Luftwaffe  stayed more less loyal to German Knightly tradition, they where as evil as rest of soldiers fighting this dirty and cruel war.
I hate when People try to shoehorn Waffen into some kind of German fighting elite. Late in war they usually where getting better equipment thx to nazi party connection and surrender (especially on eastern front) was never an option for them ..but Elite ?
btw iam doing historical airsoft and i play German soldier....someone need to play bad guys so boys from 101 can be heroic.
btw2 Jews where not prosecuted because of religion,Nazi where killing Atheist an Orthodox. It was all about Nazi stupid conception of race
On Dust 
There is problem selling Nazi related stuff in Europe ( remember Return to castle Wolfenstein?) there are laws about it. Its less problematic in case of History Games and far more in alternative/scifi stuff. Dust books keep silent about all evil that communist and nazi party did . 
But i prefer silence over some pop-history bollocks and that what we would get (its game for kids etc). Axis are evil in world of Dust , and Sigrid is younger twin sister of Elsa , we can clearly see that in comics books. They exploit poor monkeyz , turn their own in zombies etc.Scale is incomparable but evil is there.
Only thing that i would expect  to see is Stalin as murderous paranoid bastard to counter sweet innocent hard as nails scarily dressed Koshka- thou we wont get him as hero in game i hope.

cheers

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Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

Do you really think civilians are innocent when they run the war factories and support their soldiers? Give me a break.

 

With this incredibly stupid discourse you justify the 9/11 attack then...

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Peacekeeper_b said:

Using the Atomic bomb saved millions of American soldiers, marines and sailors from dying in foireign sands. Yes, we destroyed two major cities and killed hundreds of thousands in the process.

 

A mass murder that was meant not to save american lives, but to show to SOviet Union what the US can do.

It was an act against humanity, a real war crime that has not persecuted just because US won the war.

 

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Hey maybe we should bring the conversation back to a much lighter area. How about sex and religion? Thats always much safer than politics , the new heavy Allied walkers really do look Russian to me so I think we should start speculating with wild abandon what the SSU heavy walkers really will look like.

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mostrojoe said:

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

 

Do you really think civilians are innocent when they run the war factories and support their soldiers? Give me a break.

 

 

 

With this incredibly stupid discourse you justify the 9/11 attack then...

Not really as we were not actively at war against anyone. We were attacked by the Japanese, we retaliated. You may try to use that to explain or rationalize the 9/11 attacks but it wont really work.

I mean, all you come off as is someone who hates the USA. And you are allowed to.

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mostrojoe said:

Peacekeeper_b said:

 

Using the Atomic bomb saved millions of American soldiers, marines and sailors from dying in foireign sands. Yes, we destroyed two major cities and killed hundreds of thousands in the process.

 

 

A mass murder that was meant not to save american lives, but to show to SOviet Union what the US can do.

It was an act against humanity, a real war crime that has not persecuted just because US won the war.

 

What newsletter do you get your history from? The US Military Intelligence was strong enough argument to not invade japan with a land force. It would have taken years, millions would have died on both sides and the financial loss to the world as a whole would have been enormous. So yeah, we also showed our muscle a little to the USSR. So what? That was exactly what the arms race and space race were about. And it worked. The USSR went bankrupt and fell apart.

It was far less an act against humanity then you seem to think. IT WAS A FRIGGIN WAR and just because the USA won doesnt mean it let us ignore war crimes. And the bombing of Japan was not a warcrime. Get over yourself and your false sense of history. We demanded a Japanese surrender. They refused despite what we threatened. We bombed them and requested the surrender again. They refused. We bombed them again. They surrendered. This VJ day anniversary I will toast to the Enola Gay and the men who served the US in the Pacific for winning a war we didnt want but the Japanese started.

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Katman said:

Hey maybe we should bring the conversation back to a much lighter area. How about sex and religion? Thats always much safer than politics , the new heavy Allied walkers really do look Russian to me so I think we should start speculating with wild abandon what the SSU heavy walkers really will look like.

Gladly Katman. I also thought they looked rather Russian, but since the Russians are a separate bloc and I doubt we see anything for them soon, I might have to rethink my idea of SSU forces. I just hope we dont suffer a Koshka figure and they go straight to the hard and heavy war machines and infantry for these blokes.

 

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Peacekeeper_b said:

Katman said:

 

Hey maybe we should bring the conversation back to a much lighter area. How about sex and religion? Thats always much safer than politics , the new heavy Allied walkers really do look Russian to me so I think we should start speculating with wild abandon what the SSU heavy walkers really will look like.

 

 

Gladly Katman. I also thought they looked rather Russian, but since the Russians are a separate bloc and I doubt we see anything for them soon, I might have to rethink my idea of SSU forces. I just hope we dont suffer a Koshka figure and they go straight to the hard and heavy war machines and infantry for these blokes.

 

 

I am sure we all wont cloned Koshka half dressed unit !!!!!

And sinosoviet secret weapon - Giant cloned Koshka images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRoQ8RRVEhPo1TKBcx3YX4

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Poyet said:

 

I am sure we all wont cloned Koshka half dressed unit !!!!!

And sinosoviet secret weapon - Giant cloned Koshka 

God I hope not. As I have learned form the bax set Sigrid, clevage is a ***** to paint!

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Tagnator said:

 pfiiiuuw i'm really glad i'm not the only one thinking that the new allied heavy walkers look more soviet then american/british!

 

Being the conspiracy nut I am, if you look at the gun on Fireball the sharks mouth on the barrell is from the SSU decal set . Not saying this is what is happening, but, what if there was some intentional misdirection to make people think the SSU heavy walkers were Allied. Then again if these really are the Allied heavy walkers then what are the SSU heavies gonna look like?

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Katman said:

Tagnator said:

 

 pfiiiuuw i'm really glad i'm not the only one thinking that the new allied heavy walkers look more soviet then american/british!

 

 

 

Being the conspiracy nut I am, if you look at the gun on Fireball the sharks mouth on the barrell is from the SSU decal set . Not saying this is what is happening, but, what if there was some intentional misdirection to make people think the SSU heavy walkers were Allied. Then again if these really are the Allied heavy walkers then what are the SSU heavies gonna look like?

But the names on the hull are in english (and on the allied decal sheet). Also the shark teeth are not on the soviet decal set. The closest one is the bobmb with the shark mouth decal. Im not sure what the Sov heavies are going to look like but I wish they would hurry so I can spend even more of my hard earned money...gran_risa.gif(And my KV47s are lonely). So far the only soviet heavy has been the Big Joe

BIG-JOSEPH-01.jpg

Looks cool but I would assume that they have moved on from that design though since it seems to be lacking guns in the new arms race.

 

 

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mostrojoe said:

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

 

Do you really think civilians are innocent when they run the war factories and support their soldiers? Give me a break.

 

 

 

With this incredibly stupid discourse you justify the 9/11 attack then...

 

This is socially retarded. How can you compare 9/11 to WW2, or anything that happened there?

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Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

mostrojoe said:

 

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

 

Do you really think civilians are innocent when they run the war factories and support their soldiers? Give me a break.

 

 

 

With this incredibly stupid discourse you justify the 9/11 attack then...

 

 

 

This is socially retarded. How can you compare 9/11 to WW2, or anything that happened there?

Just ignore him Fulminarex. He doesnt have a clue.

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..ok.....moving on....after looking at the Allied Heavies again, I kind of like them.  What throws them off for me is the Dozer Blade in the front.  I don't know why you would want something like there.  Other than some extra armor of course.

The Russia walkers seemed more...humanoid shaped.  More like suits of armor than vehicles.  So I wonder if the Russian Heavies will reflect this. 

-Jeff

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o k.. looking at the big joe soviet heavy walker made me even more confused! i tought soviet walkers were more like real walkers, but this is more a tank on legs like the allied ones! (ok big joe is on ski's)

 

 

 

 

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