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Algesan

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When do we get to see Sino-Soviets? 

When do we get to see normal troops and tanks available? 

When do we get to see the other subfactions within each major faction?

When will anyone from Fantasy Flight actually read and respond to any posts?

The sad part, FFG could make a bit of cheap coin by releasing the "normal" cards for troops and WW2 tanks, then direct players to go buy one of various companies' same scale troops and tanks for "official" use.  You want a platoon of five Shermans?  Buy and build five Shermans and have five official Sherman cards in hand.  This is since FFG is using the GW-style tournament rules...bostezo.gif

 

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 Yeah,

 

 i too am looking forward to a few other factions. but that said. as we have discussed in the local gaming group. it would not be hard to convert a few walkers to soviets, then use any other scale soviet models using comarable units from alies. just change the names.

 same with japanese.

 

the thing that ive recently been looking and and wanting. after reading the latest comic ; is. Gun implacments. no movment, permanent soft covered guns.

I know these have no place in 'turnaments' but who cares..for fun freindly story based games..hell yeah!

 

"just say'in"

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That actually depends on what kind of tournament rules you are using.  If the armed bunkers have a point value, then it can be possible to factor them in.

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CombatRanger said:

I'm sure in the future we will see additional alien races.  In the SeeLowe fluff it states that a Galactic Confict is going on.

Sure, but the question isn't about the future a year from now, it is about the future in a month or two.  I actually wouldn't be real interested in seeing another alien race, it doesn't fit the genre.  Unless the storyline progresses to the point where we have the human race in space, which would really be an entirely different game.  Weird War 2 meets 40K?  No thanks.  So three major factions who fight each other, who all have at least one main subfaction who opposes the current government of each faction, and who all have to work together to beat the alien invader race.  That is cool.

 

What I'm worried about is FFG going GW on us.  GW at least has a fig leaf, they are putting out new models, but the majority of the armies in 1945-1950 Dust Tactics are still going to be tanks, trucks and grunt infantry.  I wouldn't mind staging some of those battles, say T-34/85s and Soviet Guards Infantry vs. Blutkreuz Korps walkers and grenadiers.  Or Shermans and US Paratroops vs the same.  Or Axis home guard grunts and Panthers vs an elite Allied ASCOM strike team.  Lots and lots of fun potential and all of the models for the "normal" troops and tanks exist already from several model companies in the same scale.  So why is FFG looking like they are going to reinvent the wheel with yet another version of a Sherman tank.  Just print the data cards for Sherman tanks, sell them and cash in the coin.

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Personally I'm not interested in using mundane tanks and things, I've got vehicles and stat cards for some but have never used them, why would you want to when you have walkers?  I'm not that interested in aliens either as it would then turn the game into sci-fi rather than Weird War 2.

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I bet they have some display units from other factions at GenCon.  I don't see FFG selling cards for you to go out and buy other models, when they can sell the card and the model and make more money then just the card.  I think the release schedule so far is right on.  Lot faster then I thought it would be.

I am sure the revised core will be at GenCon, but could you imagine if they released a whole new faction with no warning?  WoW!   It aint gonna happen but still.

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Algesan said:

CombatRanger said:

What I'm worried about is FFG going GW on us.  

 

Oh please!!! Not again...preocupado.gif

If you lurk moar on the forum you´ll find LOTS of discussion about this issue (the political FFG vs GW thingie) as well as the claim on official cards for historical vehicles and such.

Just think about it and it ain´t gonna happen. You can still go to Arkangl blog and get plenty of resources to use such units in your games if you want.

Dust studio is releasing lots of vehicles and units, the logic is that you build an army based on the products they release rather than historical made by other cmpanies. Also the scale of battle is not so big as to include all the options so, even less chances that regular units would ever be released by them, what for?

Again, lurkmoar and you´ll see what I mean, some months ago we were arguing about this issues and there´s been tons of announcements since then about new units and vehicles...where would you be focusing right now?

And lastly, the game is less than a year old, so when you talk about "the future" you´re at least talking about a year form now, and why not even more? I´m sure we´ll see plenty of thing we didn´t ecpect for in the meantime.

 

What I don´t quite share is the opinion that aliens take away the WWWII part of the game...It really depends on the style and story that will come with them, just my point of view.

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I don't mind the aliens either as long as they have some type of handicap to them.  I don't see how even an advanced 1947 Earth would stand a chance against them.  I would like to see air power soon though....

Also, I second not getting into the FFG vs/= GW.  It's dead horse.  Inevitably we will see similarities between them, but we should scream the "sky is falling" or "It's the beginning of the End" over it.  Now should Paolo and the CEO of FFG call me ask where we should go from here....I might find that suspect...

-Jeff

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Or the atmo is deadly to them and thus they have to use bulky suits or something.  It would be hard to fight with grace when you look like an astronaut.  But yes, same basic idea.

 

-Jeff 

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A couple thoughts...

FFG has a policy to not post on its fourms any comments on rules, future ip, policy, etc; they're really only allowed to say "hey that looks cool," or other lawyer neutral statments. I used to get annoyed at FFG fo never commenting on the fourms, but then they told me they just arn't supposed to. So I don't worry about it these days.

As for the aliens maybe our gravity is to "heavy" and that makes them slow and lumbering. Or maybe they're not physicaly anything like us like the aliens from War of the Worlds, and only their tech lets them fight us, and all machines have weaknesses.

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Aldarion said:

Oh please!!! Not again...preocupado.gif

If you lurk moar on the forum you´ll find LOTS of discussion about this issue (the political FFG vs GW thingie) as well as the claim on official cards for historical vehicles and such.

Just think about it and it ain´t gonna happen. You can still go to Arkangl blog and get plenty of resources to use such units in your games if you want.

Dust studio is releasing lots of vehicles and units, the logic is that you build an army based on the products they release rather than historical made by other cmpanies. Also the scale of battle is not so big as to include all the options so, even less chances that regular units would ever be released by them, what for?

Again, lurkmoar and you´ll see what I mean, some months ago we were arguing about this issues and there´s been tons of announcements since then about new units and vehicles...where would you be focusing right now?

What you get for new players coming in the game, especially when it looks like they have reorganized these forums.

Lots of discussion, but no official action, right?  That is what the discussion is for.

Why isn't it going to happen?  Because FFG is too freaking arrogant to listen to its players?  The point isn't to make up my own rules for my own little games that can never be used elsewhere, the idea is to keep a cohesive set of rules so that if I show up at your FLGS with my Dust minis, you and I can play a game with the same set of rules instead of having to argue over which of your made-up-rules-for-your-games and my made-up-rules-for-my-games we are going to use.

Good point about the scale of battle, it reinforces my position.  There won't be a need for all that many models in any one game, but it reinforces my point that it makes more economic sense to not reinvent the wheel and produce a limited run "official Dust Tactics" Sherman tank that costs a ton of money to design and make, which means the customers have to pay a higher price for when for _zero_ outlay on the model, FFG can declare that Sherman tanks from model companies X,Y or Z are usable as long as you have FFG's DT Sherman tank card that can be bought for a buck or three from FFG as part of the "Allied units" card set.  Look at the prices on the Dust-Models website, which, if you didn't realize, cannot be used in a sanctioned FFG tournament unless they have a FFG **card**.

Me?  Quick and easy bucks, it is what biz is for.  Quick and easy, point to the acceptable models for standard WW2 stuff, produce a set of cards to cover them.  Points can always be tweaked later.  Then players can have the fun of fighting tanks vs walkers.  Officially, without made up little house rules.

 

Dcal12 said:

I bet they have some display units from other factions at GenCon. I don't see FFG selling cards for you to go out and buy other models, when they can sell the card and the model and make more money then just the card. I think the release schedule so far is right on. Lot faster then I thought it would be.

I am sure the revised core will be at GenCon, but could you imagine if they released a whole new faction with no warning? WoW! It aint gonna happen but still.

<sigh>  It also costs a whole lot more to make a limited run of a model, so more profit, but more expense.  OTOH, they could release the cards and actually up the profit margin on them without causing as many complaints because the cards are relatively a LOT cheaper. 

This would also allow them to make it look like more units are available (they would be for play), without having to go through a lot of hassle of going through the design and production cycle on new models.  The models are sitting there to be bought in stores all over the USA..

Oh, BTW, what "whole new faction"?  What we have is a whole old faction (SSU) with exactly zero units available.  From some of the comments, the first faction to get its arse kicked by the new Axis alien tech won't even see its first official new tech units until "after" the Axis & Allies have had several "years" of upgrades & the aliens invade.  Then the SSU will get to show off its original new tech units that is was fielding long before the aliens invaded.

 

Major Mishap said:

Personally I'm not interested in using mundane tanks and things, I've got vehicles and stat cards for some but have never used them, why would you want to when you have walkers? I'm not that interested in aliens either as it would then turn the game into sci-fi rather than Weird War 2.

Why thank you, here is another happy customer who isn't interested in supporting FFG in reinventing the wheel so they can squeeze a few pennies by having "FFG" on the model box. 

BTW, the walkers have to be more expensive in various senses than the current technology tanks.  As to why I'd want them?  Because if we aren't in a seriously jumbled and restricted environment, an 88mm gun in a tank turret will be just as destructive as an 88mm gun in a walker.  Walkers only really outperform AFVs in extremely restricted/cluttered environments, otherwise the ability to move at full speed and shoot would be too nice.  An AFV should be able to perform "extra" actions since it is a crew, not just one person in a cockpit.  So the driver can do the MOVE while the gunner does the SHOOT and the reloader does the RELOAD.

Hanomag said:

I don't mind the aliens either as long as they have some type of handicap to them. I don't see how even an advanced 1947 Earth would stand a chance against them. I would like to see air power soon though....

Also, I second not getting into the FFG vs/= GW. It's dead horse. Inevitably we will see similarities between them, but we should scream the "sky is falling" or "It's the beginning of the End" over it. Now should Paolo and the CEO of FFG call me ask where we should go from here....I might find that suspect...

-Jeff

The usual handicap is the inability commit full strength to the attack for a variety of reasons.  Expense of shipping in troops, other military commitments, arrogance of the aliens towards the primitives of Earth, etc.  All three of those are hinted at possible limits in the backstory.

The horse is only dead if you submit to the concept that FFG is the god of Dust Tactics and it is heresy to question anything FFG chooses to do or not do.  Currently FFG appears to be following the GW business model.  It isn't a matter of the sky falling, it is a matter of a customer voicing his concerns over a product and suggesting how to improve it. 

 

 

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I thought having tanks would be cool too, but when you really think about it, a tank would just flat out destroy a walker. As mentioned, the tank will be able to do a myriad of things the walkers are not designed to do, like shooting multiple times, so forth. Tamiya makes several late-war tanks in 1/48 scale, so the if the rules could be scratched together, it would be nothing to field some big tanks.

However, I imagine that the tanks in Dust 1947 are more advanced, with bigger guns, and more of them. I would think that tanks would be double or even triple barrelled monstrosities with possibly energy shields and ceramic armor plating. The tank figures in Dust the Boardgame are wild looking, and huge, even though they are tiny pieces. So I think the normal tanks may never have been developed in the same fashion.

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Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

I thought having tanks would be cool too, but when you really think about it, a tank would just flat out destroy a walker. As mentioned, the tank will be able to do a myriad of things the walkers are not designed to do, like shooting multiple times, so forth. Tamiya makes several late-war tanks in 1/48 scale, so the if the rules could be scratched together, it would be nothing to field some big tanks.

However, I imagine that the tanks in Dust 1947 are more advanced, with bigger guns, and more of them. I would think that tanks would be double or even triple barrelled monstrosities with possibly energy shields and ceramic armor plating. The tank figures in Dust the Boardgame are wild looking, and huge, even though they are tiny pieces. So I think the normal tanks may never have been developed in the same fashion.

I'm sure they end up super tanks of one sort or another, but all the US walkers pretty much have a Sherman looking turret and no matter how great a technology is and how it will stomp the "old stuff" flat, if your industry is tooled to making something and your infrastructure is tooled to support it, then it will probably stay in production.   We also don't know the economic cost of building walkers and high tech gear. 

 

Also, we are supposedly dealing with stuff from the last five years (current 1947, first walkers in Stalingrad 1942).  Lots of space for a strike force of walkers and elites vs. "regular" tanks and troops.

 

 

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Algesan said:

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

 

I thought having tanks would be cool too, but when you really think about it, a tank would just flat out destroy a walker. As mentioned, the tank will be able to do a myriad of things the walkers are not designed to do, like shooting multiple times, so forth. Tamiya makes several late-war tanks in 1/48 scale, so the if the rules could be scratched together, it would be nothing to field some big tanks.

However, I imagine that the tanks in Dust 1947 are more advanced, with bigger guns, and more of them. I would think that tanks would be double or even triple barrelled monstrosities with possibly energy shields and ceramic armor plating. The tank figures in Dust the Boardgame are wild looking, and huge, even though they are tiny pieces. So I think the normal tanks may never have been developed in the same fashion.

 

 

I'm sure they end up super tanks of one sort or another, but all the US walkers pretty much have a Sherman looking turret and no matter how great a technology is and how it will stomp the "old stuff" flat, if your industry is tooled to making something and your infrastructure is tooled to support it, then it will probably stay in production.   We also don't know the economic cost of building walkers and high tech gear. 

 

Also, we are supposedly dealing with stuff from the last five years (current 1947, first walkers in Stalingrad 1942).  Lots of space for a strike force of walkers and elites vs. "regular" tanks and troops.

 

 

 

I agree that most of the forces would be standard tanks etc, but probably with incredible abilities. I am under the impression that walkers are along the same rarity as say the Me 262 was in WW2. In the fluff, Lazergrenadiers carry lazer weapons which, although they would like to make standard issue, are just too hi-tech to build in massive quantities. Now these are hand held weapons, so imagine the difficulty of an entire vehicle based on the same difficult technology.

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Just so I'm clear, has FFG actually announced that they were going to be releasing their 'own' non-weird models (aka, M4 Shermans or Panthers or the like) for Dust, or is this all just speculation on something that might or might not happen?

-Will

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wminsing said:

Just so I'm clear, has FFG actually announced that they were going to be releasing their 'own' non-weird models (aka, M4 Shermans or Panthers or the like) for Dust, or is this all just speculation on something that might or might not happen?

-Will

Speculation, though it is highly unlikely FFG will create cards for non FFG/ Dust Studios minis . The community can do that well enough on their own .

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Ok, thanks for clearing that up.  Yep, I think rules for non-Dust models can just as easily be done by the community.  Seems a bit much to ask FFG to do that work essentially for free (they probably would just break even on selling unit cards).

 

-Will

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Katman said:

wminsing said:

 

Just so I'm clear, has FFG actually announced that they were going to be releasing their 'own' non-weird models (aka, M4 Shermans or Panthers or the like) for Dust, or is this all just speculation on something that might or might not happen?

-Will

 

 

Speculation, though it is highly unlikely FFG will create cards for non FFG/ Dust Studios minis . The community can do that well enough on their own .

Actually more of a "like to have".  The problem with the "community" doing it "well enough" is that if there are no official cards, then it basically just playing with yourself to bother with it.  None of the "community" "well enough" solutions will be playable in any official rules game.

Why don't you try playing in a GW sanctioned event with "community" army units, or even FW units.  LOL

wminsing said:

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Yep, I think rules for non-Dust models can just as easily be done by the community. Seems a bit much to ask FFG to do that work essentially for free (they probably would just break even on selling unit cards).

 

-Will

ROFL!  Considering the "community" has already developed the capability to make official looking cards, the cost would be on the minimal side.  As to how much "profit" they make, that really depends on the price point they set, doesn't it?  They can actually jack the price on the cards up a bit to that it makes more percentage profit than mucking about with making real models that may or may not sell and represent a substantial investment.

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Maybe we should demand that FFG create cards so that Privateer Press Warjacks can be used ? Look at it like this , When you mow your yard do you do landscaping for all of the houses in your neighborhood?  I really hope this post makes sense later topday its 3 in the morning and I am under medication and am not quite sure this makes sense.

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Katman said:

 

Maybe we should demand that FFG create cards so that Privateer Press Warjacks can be used ? Look at it like this , When you mow your yard do you do landscaping for all of the houses in your neighborhood?  I really hope this post makes sense later topday its 3 in the morning and I am under medication and am not quite sure this makes sense.

 

 

Not really.  The idea is allowing actual World War 2 vehicles and soldiers to be used officially, not ask for war machines from other games be used.  After all, this is supposedly a WW2 setting...

BTW, sure, if they pay me enough to make it worth my time.  If the neighbors give me a cut to make sure that the lawn care guy does a uniformly good job on all their lawns, that works even better since someone else (the lawn guy or model making company) has to do the big investing in hardware and I just come behind, make sure it is all the same and wave as he goes away.  They sweat the big cost, I get the big profit.

Let me quote from the official tournament rules: "Proxy or homemade unit cards are not acceptable under any circumstances. Regardless of any and all modifications made to a unit, the official unit card, coinciding with a unit listed on the Army Point Cost page will always represent the units weapons,
ammunition, armor, health and damage chart."

So much for "community" doing the cards...

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I do not play in, or have any interest in playing in, tournaments.  And for the tournaments FFG is free to set whatever rules it pleases.  Seems like this whole idea is a non-starter to me.

-Will

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Algesan said:

 

ROFL!  Considering the "community" has already developed the capability to make official looking cards, the cost would be on the minimal side.  As to how much "profit" they make, that really depends on the price point they set, doesn't it?  They can actually jack the price on the cards up a bit to that it makes more percentage profit than mucking about with making real models that may or may not sell and represent a substantial investment.

 

Or, more to the point- they could stick to just releasing new units and content for Dust, and not worry if someone is angry they can't bring their Sherman to the tournament.  I really don't see any net benefit in FFG or us in this- it would just delay the release of actual Dust models.  I'd rather they get a move on in releasing sino-soviets or something then try to create the several dozen unit cards they'd need to even begin sampling all the real WWII equipment out on the market.  

 

-Will

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