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Dulahan

Broken Chains tidbits?

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Fwiw:

I specifically went through the "trouble" to go get it (I realise this is not an option for everyone) and while I do not really care if I am one of a few select or the rest of the world has it I would certainly not have gone if I knew it would have been realeased just a day or two after the event. Which I think is somewhat the point in many ways.

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 They are bound by the terms of Free RPG day not to release the PDF or sell the print version until after the event. The point of the event isn't to get it into the hands of people who are already eagerly awaiting the product. The point is to get people who have never heard of the product to take a look.

In any event, the PDF will be up soon enough. You'll have plenty of time to play and replay it before the official release.

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To those of you who have managed to get hold of it, and say you like it - awesome! I'm glad I'm finally allowed to talk about it lengua.gif

I love the rules changes in regards to standard attacks, semi-auto and full-auto (and the same in melee, but with swift attack instead of semi-auto) - it helps to balance the different combat options a lot better, so it's not just automatically a better option to go full-auto all the time, as "spray-and-pray" might well not hit the target, but a single shot will. It's a good trade off, I think.

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Just a couple notes:

Swift attack says half action, not full action in my copy of the book (a post up thread said full), it appears to be an awesome talent.

 

I like Babaroth, the downloadable Khorne Beserker but Frenzy may be better as a RP device than an in combat one. I'm having reservations concerning two weapon wielder as well (compared to swift attack and semi/fullauto). A question concerning frenzy, does he get to do 1d10 + 15 while in frenzy or is the +10 cap still in effect for stat bonuses (I'm certain he gets the 1DR for his T bonus increasing)?

The carrion hunters have a sort of horde mechanic put on them only for attacking CSM where if 3 of them can attack 1 CSM they do so with a +20 bonus and double damage.

 

I've been away from 40K games for awhile as I was awaiting Deathwatch and then my finances tanked but this might draw me back.

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 I like Babaroth, the downloadable Khorne Beserker but Frenzy may be better as a RP device than an in combat one.

Could you explain that? +10 WS, S, T and WP doesn't sound shabby to me, especially since there's no restriction on parrying.

 

I'm having reservations concerning two weapon wielder as well (compared to swift attack and semi/fullauto).

While a character with a monstrous WS might find Swift Attack better, Babaroth has better chances with TWW from what little I've seen from the rules. When he's in a stand-up fight, the only thing he can get for his second half action is Aim or perhaps a Feint (*). On the other hand side, an enemy that has only one reaction flat-out can't parry both hits from TWW while he needs only additional DoS on his Dodge or Parry to negate the hits from a Swift Attack. Further, TWW has a much better chance to hit at least once, which may be all that's needed when you're a seven feet tall hulking berserker in powered armour doing somewhere around 1D10+16 Tearing points of damage per attack. Still, I'd assume you can combine Swift Attack and TWW in the full rules as you previously could. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

(*) though his 'Feint' would probably be more along the lines of "Hack the enemy weapon to bits before you do the same to the enemy".

 

A question concerning frenzy, does he get to do 1d10 + 15 while in frenzy or is the +10 cap still in effect for stat bonuses (I'm certain he gets the 1DR for his T bonus increasing)?

Is there a +10 cap for stat bonuses now? That would be a new thing, as lots of monsters had higher Toughness bonuses than 10 before.

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Cifer said:

 I like Babaroth, the downloadable Khorne Beserker but Frenzy may be better as a RP device than an in combat one.

Could you explain that? +10 WS, S, T and WP doesn't sound shabby to me, especially since there's no restriction on parrying.

 

I'm having reservations concerning two weapon wielder as well (compared to swift attack and semi/fullauto).

While a character with a monstrous WS might find Swift Attack better, Babaroth has better chances with TWW from what little I've seen from the rules. When he's in a stand-up fight, the only thing he can get for his second half action is Aim or perhaps a Feint (*). On the other hand side, an enemy that has only one reaction flat-out can't parry both hits from TWW while he needs only additional DoS on his Dodge or Parry to negate the hits from a Swift Attack. Further, TWW has a much better chance to hit at least once, which may be all that's needed when you're a seven feet tall hulking berserker in powered armour doing somewhere around 1D10+16 Tearing points of damage per attack. Still, I'd assume you can combine Swift Attack and TWW in the full rules as you previously could. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

(*) though his 'Feint' would probably be more along the lines of "Hack the enemy weapon to bits before you do the same to the enemy".

 

A question concerning frenzy, does he get to do 1d10 + 15 while in frenzy or is the +10 cap still in effect for stat bonuses (I'm certain he gets the 1DR for his T bonus increasing)?

Is there a +10 cap for stat bonuses now? That would be a new thing, as lots of monsters had higher Toughness bonuses than 10 before.

I did a long post with math that apparently took to long and was lost to the ether. Basically what the math ended up boiling down to is Apples to Apples, Swift Attack will always be a better choice than two weapon wielder if you must choose between them and Frenzy takes about 5 rounds to catch up for the bonuses (which aren't really that significant) it gives. Also Asrodel is better than Babaroth over all and should probably jack his chainaxe as he'll do better with it.

I thought I remembered from 2+years ago that the unnatural attributes + other bonuses for PC's capped out at +10 (that may be a mix up with WFRP first edition though as I don't have my DH books here at work).

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I did a long post with math that apparently took to long and was lost to the ether.

Same here. preocupado.gif

 

Basically what the math ended up boiling down to is Apples to Apples, Swift Attack will always be a better choice than two weapon wielder if you must choose between them

I disagree. Firstly, Two Weapon Wielder has a higher chance of hitting at all, which may be all that's important when you're swinging 1D10+14 Tearing around (it would, for example, be entirely enough to obliterate the group witch if she went bonkers). Secondly, TWW draws out two reactions which many enemies won't have instead of leaving the enemy with the chance to just roll ten points below his dodge/parry skill and evade the entire attack.

Only if it's about average numbers of hits does Swift Attack stay flat-out better.

 

and Frenzy takes about 5 rounds to catch up for the bonuses (which aren't really that significant) it gives.

Are you sure about that? Because I really can't see how one can compare the benefits of having +10 T, WP to not having them.

There's also the question whether Unnatural Abilities would double the frenzy bonuses or whether their flat +4 bonus are the actual rules rather than shorthand for "we don't want to explain that the +20 strength of the power armour isn't multiplied since it's not part of their actual strength".

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Are we certain that Unnatural abilities are adding +4 now and not doubling the characteristic bonus? Sure, it adds 4 for each of the Marines, but that's their stat bonus as well. Could they not just be doubling them and listing it as an addition for simplicity's sake, much like how the strength bonuses appear to be already figured into the weapon damages?

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bmaynard said:

Are we certain that Unnatural abilities are adding +4 now and not doubling the characteristic bonus? Sure, it adds 4 for each of the Marines, but that's their stat bonus as well. Could they not just be doubling them and listing it as an addition for simplicity's sake, much like how the strength bonuses appear to be already figured into the weapon damages?

Unlikely, considering that in Final Sanction (Deathwatch demo adventure) Unnatural Characteristics worked the same way they did in the final version and in previous games.

Also, doesn't the Heretek also have Unnatural Characteristics? Do his bonuses map with his base stats?

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The heretek does in fact have a +2 to his toughness bonus "due to the warp-spawned flesh grafted to his body." (Giving him a total of 6)

Which I would think further enforces my point that we don't know exactly how the bonuses are figured. Especially since in both instances they're listed as "Unnatural Characteristics" and the bonuses are different.

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Thanks to it being online, I just finished reading it...

 

interesting.  I can't say I'm entirely happy with how they seem to have embraced the "Chaos as evil icky bad guys at all levels" thing despite trying to say otherwise in some of the Dev Diaries.  I'd have loved to see, for instance, the charismatic girl be more of a victim of bad circumstances and infighting, still relatively good despite it all, just forced into other things instead of a flesh mask wearing heretic.  Oddly (Well, maybe not) the Alpha Legionairre is the only one who is even close to not being flat out evil. 

 

Still, it is a rather cool adventure, I love the setting of the ship.  It shows just how big even a small one is.  And how amazingly huge a game ran on a Space Hulk could be (Easily big enough for an entire campaign).  I could see even this one being easy to make much larger just by having a couple other factions and tribes to have everyone playing off of and against.  So that's neat! 

 

Can't wait for the book at Gen Con (And will have a hard time not leaving the hall to read it immediately and instead try to save it for the long ride home!), and hopefully we get a sequel 'adventure' like Deathwatch did in a week or two as well.

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@Dulahan

While most characters definitely are on Team Evil both in allegiance and outlook, I'd say both the psyker and the heretek are not that obviously evil. The latter is of the Mad Scientist type, but does what he does for idealistic reasons - he believes humanity will grow stronger with daemon grafts. And the witch... well, she's going to survive, no matter what it takes.

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Dulahan said:

Still, it is a rather cool adventure, I love the setting of the ship.  It shows just how big even a small one is.  And how amazingly huge a game ran on a Space Hulk could be (Easily big enough for an entire campaign).  I could see even this one being easy to make much larger just by having a couple other factions and tribes to have everyone playing off of and against.  So that's neat! 

When the game is released and if I'm tasked with running it, I'll probably start by doing just that.

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