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Bandersnatch2

MIU Weapon Interface, Limitations

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Though they're one of my favorite cybernetics, some things about the MIU Weapon Interface are unclear. For example, though it says that the linked weapon is commonly mounted on the shoulder, it doesn't stipulate that this is a requirement. So how many MIU Weapon Inferfaces could one person have? Also, are they limited to Pistol-class weapons like Ballistic Mechadendrite?

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How crazy do you want to be?

The limit is pretty much common sense.

We have seen bolters (one) on shoulders (Inquisitor), and pistols in forearmweapon mounts (this game).

Id allow it with the compact upgrade, but id prevent a player from going all out (2 shoulder mounnts + 2 forearm mounts), simply because the guy would look stupid.

Yes weapons are quite dominant in 40k, but there is a limit. Eg dont walk in a dirty power armour to a gala banquet.

 

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From the errata:

Question: What is the largest weapon that can be used with
an MIU?
Answer: This depends on where the weapon is mounted.
If on the shoulder, for instance, it is likely that only a Pistol
weapon could be used, as anything larger would be too heavy
and unwieldy. In general, only Basic and Pistol weapons can
be used with MIUs, however if the Explorer found a way to
mount a heavy weapon on a mobile platform or vehicle (and
didn’t mind being linked to said weapon) he could install an
MIU on it.
Also note that an Explorer using an MIU is still subject to the
one action with the “attack” subtype per round rule.

 

 

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Seems to depend on the weapon itself, then, too. There is almost no difference between a boltgun and a bolt pistol save for the ammo capacity and shape, and there are some basic/carbine weapons I'd deem as large or even smaller than some of the larger pistols. Weight and recoil would play a role as well. --> Common sense.

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Mordechai Von Razgriz said:

I remember well one of the Inquisitor from the game of the same name having a Storm-Bolter with a MIU on a shoulder pad. My own ruling therefore will be pistols, and compact basics weapons only.

Thats the guy i alluded to. Basically even if FFG says its only pistols, GW has already done it with bigger stuff. Same as you id force them to be compact. (Which isnt too bad with a storm bolter)

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Indeed. I stand corrected as I opened my Inquisitor pdf, it is a godamned PSYCANNON !

INQUISITOR COVENANT

Inquisitor Covenant is one of a new breed of fiery, determined individuals dedicated to
purging perceived corruption within the Inquisition itself. As an Ordo Malleus member,
he has access to specific daemon-hunting equipment, such as his psycannon, and makes
a particular point of destroying the daemonhosts created by his less puritanical cohorts.
Currently Covenant is scouring the southern rim of the galaxy.

Equipment: Power falchion (see rules for Frostblade); MIU-linked shoulder mounted
psycannon; pump action combat shotgun with 20 scatter shells and 20 Hellfire shells;
bolt pistol with reload & five Metal Storm rounds; carapace armour on chest, abdomen
& groin; flak armour on all other locations except head.
Special Abilities: Ambidextrous; Deflect shot; Heroic; Nerves of steel; Word of the
Emperor.
Psychic Powers: Psychic impel; Force ward.

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I think a better way may be to require the player to explain exactly where the weapon is mounted and how they support its weight and how it is aimed without needing their hands. If their explanation is reasonable, they get the weapon attached, otherwise they don't. Then think about what kinds of problems their explanation would cause.

 

Maybe require them to purchase the servo motors separately for weapons larger than pistols, since the MIU WI only comes with pistol sized ones.

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Bilateralrope said:

I think a better way may be to require the player to explain exactly where the weapon is mounted and how they support its weight and how it is aimed without needing their hands. If their explanation is reasonable, they get the weapon attached, otherwise they don't. Then think about what kinds of problems their explanation would cause.

Maybe require them to purchase the servo motors separately for weapons larger than pistols, since the MIU WI only comes with pistol sized ones.

Or require the character to have a certain level of Strength/Toughness, and do require to gun to be specifically modified for MIU mounting, so that they can't just slap on any gun they come across or switch shoulder weapons mid-combat.

I have no issue with letting an Explorator with Machinator Array carry a (specifically modified) basic weapon shoulder mounted. Or an Arch-Militant with a combined Strength & Toughness bonuses of 10+.

But if a scrawny Seneschal tries that I'd nip it in the bud and allow him a pistol at most (it could be an Inferno Pistol though... gui%C3%B1o.gif)

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Voronesh said:

Well.

I guess that measn compact heavy weapons on shoulders?

That made me lol. :D

But yeah, uh ... Suspensors, I guess?

The only official image even looks like it's specifically supposed to be fitted on a shoulder pad. How else would you carry this?

Psycannon.jpg

That said, the psycannon doesn't even appear to be very big. According to the 3E DH Codex, its shells have normal pistol/boltgun caliber. I wonder why it is classed as a Heavy Weapon in DH...

m1184225_99111399001_INQCovenantMain_445

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Wasn't it turned into a larger weapon in Codex: Daemonhunters? I believe it was an assault weapon or the like there, and that was when carried by Grey Knights, so perhaps that's why it was made a heavy weapon in DH?

You could always reduce the damage and range a little and have a pistol version, like the one mounted on the shoulder of that Inquisitor model.

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MILLANDSON said:

Wasn't it turned into a larger weapon in Codex: Daemonhunters? I believe it was an assault weapon or the like there, and that was when carried by Grey Knights, so perhaps that's why it was made a heavy weapon in DH?

Good call - having searched the interwebs, it seems as if the new Codex now has two different psycannons where previously there was only one:

"Most psycannons are relatively compact weapons, and can be wielded in battle by a single Grey Knight. However, the Chapter also has access to a much smaller number of heavy psycannons - truly fearsome weapons whose massive scale and power requirements can only be accommodated by a Nemesis Dreadknight.

A psycannon can either be fired as a heavy weapon or as an assault weapon. Models in Terminator armour always use the Heavy option."

In other news, the new Codex also made psycannons of any sort available to Grey Knights only, as apparently only they have a will strong enough to activate the psychically charged bolts. Hmmh. Ward...

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You mean this information can be safely disregarded since it stems from fangasm?

I suggest cutting it down to a compact basic weapon. (Maybe compact reduces damage on basic weapns?), since a pistol would be even smaller than that guys stuff.

Although he could just as well have an archeotech one mounted. So he has an Arecheotech MIU and an Archeotech Psycannon on top?

 

The new codex has the old psycannon, plus a tanksized one carried by the guy in a mecha suite ^^. (Why couldnt they just do an appropriate dreadnoght?)

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 Well, if they just did a dreadnought, Herr Ward couldn't win his self-opposed pissing contest. The sad part is he could write quality material, but he'd rather destroy years of excellent fluff to support illogical and in my opinion far less cool stuff that he finds cool.

On to the original topic: It's completely relative. Shoulder mounting could be limited to a Basic weapon when armour-mounted for most or literally shoulder mounted for a Tech Priest (to reflect the metal frame a TP has as a foundation). When Power Armour or simply exceptional strength and toughness heavy weaponry could be allowed. That would be case-by-case, as something like an Autocannon would be inappropriate most of the time (an Explorator with Strength and Toughness 60 and the Machinator Array the notable exception) but something akin to a Heavy Stubber could be worked onto regular Powered Armour.

I'm a fan of the concept of dual MIU weapons, one on each arm, especially if they're armour-mounted. Very cool, fairly reasonable physics-wise. I'd limit these to compact basic weapons/pistols (I count them more or less the same - compact a Boltgun and you have a bolt pistol with 1 point lower damage and slightly improved range, IIRC) or regular Basic weapons if it's Power Armour. 

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Voronesh said:

You mean this information can be safely disregarded since it stems from fangasm?

I suggest cutting it down to a compact basic weapon. (Maybe compact reduces damage on basic weapns?), since a pistol would be even smaller than that guys stuff.

Although he could just as well have an archeotech one mounted. So he has an Arecheotech MIU and an Archeotech Psycannon on top?

 

The new codex has the old psycannon, plus a tanksized one carried by the guy in a mecha suite ^^. (Why couldnt they just do an appropriate dreadnoght?)

We can't disregard it, because it's GW studio canon! gui%C3%B1o.giflengua.gif

But yea, you could probably make a basic weapon version of it, by using the normal psycanon rules, but making the damage and range closer to that of a normal bolt weapon, and then make it compact (so then it fits on your shoulder).

It'd be expensive, and require a lot of customisation, but then it's a psycannon - those things ain't gonna be cheap anyway lengua.gif

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MILLANDSON said:

Voronesh said:

 

You mean this information can be safely disregarded since it stems from fangasm?

I suggest cutting it down to a compact basic weapon. (Maybe compact reduces damage on basic weapns?), since a pistol would be even smaller than that guys stuff.

Although he could just as well have an archeotech one mounted. So he has an Arecheotech MIU and an Archeotech Psycannon on top?

 

The new codex has the old psycannon, plus a tanksized one carried by the guy in a mecha suite ^^. (Why couldnt they just do an appropriate dreadnoght?)

 

 

We can't disregard it, because it's GW studio canon! gui%C3%B1o.giflengua.gif

But yea, you could probably make a basic weapon version of it, by using the normal psycanon rules, but making the damage and range closer to that of a normal bolt weapon, and then make it compact (so then it fits on your shoulder).

It'd be expensive, and require a lot of customisation, but then it's a psycannon - those things ain't gonna be cheap anyway lengua.gif

 

I know, i know.

No reason that i cant give it imaginative names though. Remember the Eldar powered toilet? My girlfreind calls the new version a walking cow. **** cant buy any, the name alone kills the model for me now.

The Stormraven has a similar fate. Great rules, model is soandso. I wont ignore it, but my CSM will be very creative with names.

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Voronesh said:

You mean this information can be safely disregarded since it stems from fangasm?

Well, as per GW it's now official, unfortunately. :(

If you really want to play by the official setting, you'd have to adapt, somehow. In a way, it's no different than Space Marines switching from being criminals in 1st to genetically enhanced superhumans in 2nd Edition - except that people are more used to the current Marines than the new psycannons, both because the old Marines weren't around for very long, as well as because most of the fans grew up with 2nd Edition and upwards.

What confused me is that the DH psycannon apparently did not even conform to the old canon, in that it was classed as a heavy weapon when it clearly wasn't. The P&P psycannon does neither reflect the old nor the new one - given that, as of now, the latter is only available to Grey Knights. I wonder if Daemon Hammer will have an "updated" version of it in the Malleus Armoury.

Are GKs really better at their magiks than "proper" psykers and psykene Inquisitors? Seems I misjudged them - didn't read too much details on the Grey Knights, but I always had interpreted them as only using minor psychic powers to back up and enhance their "normal" Astartes combat capabilities or shielding themselves against daemonic incursions. Then again, if they're really the genetic seed of the Emperor, I guess they would have great potential...

Still, someone seriously needs to tell Ward that the secret of writing good canon is that you expand upon existing stuff instead of changing it on a whim.

 

I suppose Archaeotech could be used as a "cop-out" for a psycannon usable by non-GKs, though. In that way, you'd at least preserve the appearance of people like Inquisitor Covenant, if one wanted to do that.

As for the bolt damage, I'm not sure it would actually have to change for a smaller version. Just look at the Exitus Pistol in the very same book. If anything, a Heavy Weapon version of the psycannon should do more damage (2d10+10? like the DW heavy bolter). Or you houserule the Exitus Pistol to do less damage, if you want to remain closer to the non-Ascension guns (which the majority of the players will use, given that Ascension only features specialist equipment). Either way, the weapons should be brought in line with each other. It is very irritating to see the damage jump up and down on arms that use identical ammunition.

 

And yes, I can totally understand the appeal of MIU-linked weapons integrated into the arms of a suit of power armour. It's a very classic image of many sci-fi and cyberpunk franchises!

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 Hey Lynata, I'm very (and somewhat obnoxiously, but I spent too much time flipping through pages to not get to do this once...) happy to say that the damage jumps are all in line with the GW studio canon. The weaponry that takes a huge leap in Ascension is (IIRC, my books are not with me) Officio Assassinorum, and in all fluff ever written the Exitus Rifle is a spectacularly powerful piece of death. The Cadian patterned Hell pistol is the same profile as the Lucius from RT except with a built-in Targeter. The melee weaponry took a little hike, but not much when compared to the Thunder Hammer, Power Fist, and Omnissian Axe.

Of course the Executor Pistol is an exception, but if you look at the Executor Assassin profile, it lists the damage as d10 rather then 2d10, which begs the question of which is correct, something I fear won't be solved until the Ascension errata.

As for a Psycannon, bear in mind the Inquisitor's Handbook introduced Psycannon Bolts that can be used by any Bolt weapon (not to be confused for in any bolt weapon, it simply means one can purchase the bolts for any bolt weapon). So, you know, you could have a pistol class psycannon if you like.

On the line of Ward, thhhbbbbbtttttt. That's all.

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Oh, I wasn't referring to damage jumps between different types of weapons (the Exitus Rifle seems pretty powerful, yet since it is meant to be that seems alright), but really just between weapons that are supposed to operate on the same principle, if not with the exact same ammunition.

As for the Executor Pistol's (sorry for messing up the name in the earlier post) bolt ammunition, I doubt that it is 1d10+4, as that would make this weapon less powerful than a cheap off-the-rack bolter (1d10+5), which doesn't sound right. Imho, these new weapon profiles were simply meant to "up the game" for Ascended characters - a small problem, as the book sadly doesn't offer stuff for everyone, hence my suggestion to scale it down rather than increasing the psycannon's damage.

The psycannon bolts sound like a good alternative - though this begs the question why there is a separate delivery system for them (the psycannon). Does the latter merely "supercharge" the bolts, i.e. somehow increasing the efficiency of the projectile? And would the psycannon bolts not be affected by the same retcon that made the psycannon GK-only? It seems to be a problem with the user's psychic potential, after all.

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Yeah the hobby does suffer at the hands of Matt Ward.

No wait, i take that abck, read that as GW's püricing policy.

Yes whatever drivel Matt Ward puts out is currently canon. Luckily he writes Codex fluff mostly, which is truly just propaganda material. One can always find a way how its just a lucky victory.

 

Codex Necrons has them crush a Black Templar force with ease. Yet in Codex Space Marines (current ed) 300 (ok close to most of the chapter, but the only number for battle barges we get is 3 companies worth) meagre Space Marines defeat a world ship with tens if not hundreds of thousands Necrons aboard.

Codices dont always add up. Pretty much the saving grace here.

The Stormraven on the other hand is indisputable a real vessel in 40k, regardless of how ugly it is.

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Voronesh said:

One can always find a way how its just a lucky victory.

Exactly - I don't mind special circumstances, as they simply have no effect on the greater picture, but then there's also facts such as technical specifications etc. Essentially what makes a simple addition to the setting (new character/location/battle) differ from a retcon (such as the new limitation for the psycannon).

Oh well. We'll adapt. It's not the first time, after all.

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Actually the Astartes killing a Necron ship has basis in the Necron Codex (one of my armies in tabletop). The big weakness that was consistent in Necron stuff was they are very slow to adapt, making them easy prey to boarding actions and hit and runs. Like the Borg from voyager, I can't recall the number of times a primary character-based away team went onto a Borg ship and messed it up hard and beamed out. So you know, a full three companies (especially if those include the First Company) would probably be able to wreck thousands of Necrons in a very short time if they got the drop on them.

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Hrmm yepp. A perfectly good example of propaganda at work.

Problem i see is, that it probably was simply like the borg, a huge mass of powered down or otherwise occupied Necrons. (Who maybe even teleported away at the point of destruction). No Space Marine would actually care for the difference, hes just "happy" to kill in the namke of the emperor.

AKA: The story doesnt tell you everything in plain speech. Well some do (Anyone killing waves of nids).

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Okay, several comments.

First, kindly do not speak of the travesty named Matt Ward.  Thank you.

Second, someone asked about the GK Psycannon.  I now have a copy of Daemon Hunter...  RoF -/2/5  2d10+15 Pen 5, Proven (4).  Plus it always fires Psybolt ammunition and has built in Suspensors so you get Auto-Stabilised as well.  Yeah, that's going to sting.

Third, the Eversor's Executor pistol is close to Astartes grade.  2d10+4 damage is better than mere human bolters.

Cheers,

- V.

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