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Inspired by Mark of the Xenos: Tau Battlesuit brainstorming

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Yes, with it's buff it's like a Las Cannon, Large Blast template which is probably what, Blast (5) for Deathwatch?

 

5 is frag missiles, I think (regular blast?).

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I think I'd give the heavy burst cannon Devastating (1) in nova-charge mode to make it more of a Horde killer (to give it a real advantage over Blast (8)).

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Hmm, might go with that actually. RoF 15 with Devastating (1) meaning a theoretical maximum of dropping a hoard by 30 points...if I understood magnitudes correctly.

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It's unlikely to ever get that many DoS, unless the horde is truly enormous. Which is why I would give it Storm.

 

Assuming pre-errata weapon stats, I would go with something like (based on the stats for the regular burst cannon)

 

Heavy burst cannon: -/-/10 2d10+3 E Pen 4 Storm

Heavy burst cannon, nova mode: -/-/10 2d10+3 E Pen 4 Devastating (1) Storm Twin-Linked

 

(I know it's not twin-linked in TT but it's hard to represent this volume of fire otherwise.)

Edited by bogi_khaosa

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IIRC (need to recheck when I get home) the heavy burst cannon in tabletop has the same S and AP as an Astartes Krak Grenade. I believe it's where I took the damage for my version.

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Unless my memory is messing with me, it has the same stats as a regular Tau burst cannon, but higher rate of fire and -- Rending in nova charge mode?

Edited by bogi_khaosa

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Unless my memory is messing with me, it has the same stats as a regular Tau burst cannon, but higher rate of fire and -- Rending in nova charge mode?

Nope. Burst cannon is S5 AP 5, Heavy Burst is S6 AP 4.

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Another Tau player here...

 

Concerning the Riptide's stats, I would look towards the Dreadknight for inspiration - stat-wise, they are almost identical, with the Riptide slower in close combat (probably lower agility, i would think) but able to take a bit more punishment (1 more wound).

 

As a very basic concept, it would look something like this for the base suit:

RIPTIDE BATTLESUIT

 

The Riptide Battlesuit increases the pilot's Size to Enormous.  Maybe one step higher?

 

The Riptide's pilot does not use his own Strength, Toughness, Agility, or Wounds while in the Riptide.  Instead, he uses the Riptide's Strength of 70, Toughness of 75, and Agility of 30.  The Riptide has Unnatural Strength (x3), Unnatural Toughness (x3) and 120 Wounds.  If the Riptide is reduced to 0 wounds it is destroyed.  The pilot is also reduced to 0 wounds and he must burn a Fate point to survive.

 

Probably should have an armour of 15 to match the Dreadknight.  R'varna might register 16, but then again, might not... instead, he'd have Unnatural Toughness (x4), which does a fine job of making him tough as nails.

 

The Riptide incorporates a powerful shield generator with a Protection Rating of 35.  Up to you if you make it Best Quality like the Dreadknight's.

 

The Riptide comes equipped with Jump Jets, allowing it to use the normal jump jet troops movement profile.

 

As for the nova generator, I kinda like the toughness test, especially if using the suit's toughness.  Something like a Difficult (-10) Toughness test would put it at roughly a 2/3 chance of success, mirroring the suit in the tabletop game.  Inflicting wounds on a failure only also matches the tabletop, and with Tau experimental weaponry in general - potent, but sometimes it'll explode on you.

 

The Ion Accelerator basically has 3 modes.  I'd steal the Ion Cannon's rules and give it slightly higher pen.  I'd find the rules for Battle Cannons (there has to be stats somewhere for a Leman Russ with a Battle Cannon) and give it slightly higher pen.  For the Nova profile, Lascannon with Blast 8ish.

 

Hmm.  Heavy Burst Cannon... Storm for sure, Heavy 15 sounds good enough, with Assault Cannon stats to start.  Give it Tearing and perhaps Twin-Linked for the noval profile.

 

 

And yeah, that's an opponent that just might help a space marine know fear.

Edited by Unusualsuspect

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Ok people,

 

To save starting another New Tau Stat-line related thread I thought I'd carry on this one.

 

 I'm having trouble with a particularly powerful Psyker PC (nearly ascended Sanctioned Psyker) as the Tau simply have no way of dealing with a powerful psyker with the current rules. My solution two this is four-fold.

 

The first i solution I've tried is having Kroot around who have eaten alot of Ork's, and shapers who have had an unhealthy amount of Weird-boy steak, to produce weak psykic Kroot.

 

The second solution I can think of it also Kroot related, but this time have them snacking on Eldar.

 

The third possible solution is using human auxillary psykers (a simple but boring option in my opinion)

 

The real out-there forth option is to somehow stat up the Tau's Nicassar allies from Battle Fleet Gothic.

 

Has anyone here attempted any of the above options, and if not does anyone fancy having a go at stating any of the above options up - I'm willing to use my current players as test-victims.

 

Regards

 

Surak

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Nothing says that force fields in Deathwatch cannot negate psychic powers. Anything with a shield generator can legitimately take a save against a power. Table top for example allows an Invulnerable save anyway. Additionally since shield drones and generators are common in Tau tech this allows chance to deny him a walk over. Consider also the Tau may have been able to acquire some Imperium Anti-psyker tech (eg null rods, psych out grenades etc) and although not understand it due to their limited comprehension of the warp, either reverse engineer to a lesser degree or integrate as is into their technology. Could apply the same result of the items at reduced effectiveness.

Thing is though, Psykers are potent but they will still become dust to a direct hit from a 3D10 + Silly, railgun from a broadside way out of range. Not many powers go beyond 300m!

Edited by Calgor Grim

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Nothing says that force fields in Deathwatch cannot negate psychic powers. Anything with a shield generator can legitimately take a save against a power. Table top for example allows an Invulnerable save anyway. Additionally since shield drones and generators are common in Tau tech this allows chance to deny him a walk over. Consider also the Tau may have been able to acquire some Imperium Anti-psyker tech (eg null rods, psych out grenades etc) and although not understand it due to their limited comprehension of the warp, either reverse engineer to a lesser degree or integrate as is into their technology. Could apply the same result of the items at reduced effectiveness.

Thing is though, Psykers are potent but they will still become dust to a direct hit from a 3D10 + Silly, railgun from a broadside way out of range. Not many powers go beyond 300m!

 

THe main probelm I have with the Psyker isn't the direct damage he causes - that is actually fairly low most of the time - its the fact he can make himself and anyone close to him completely invisable to any sort of artificial senses - which means all Tau unless they are Firewarriors with their helmet off or an Etherial. Now obviously Kroot mitigate this problem to a degree, but having a player who can stand right in front of a Riptide and not actually be worried does get a tad silly.

 

I don't want to completely negate the player because he has made an effective character, I just want o keep there current mission challenging fo the players - on a side note I probably should mention I'm using DH1 characters with the OW combat system, their mission from their Inquisitor just happens to have brought them into the Reach.

 

Regards

 

Surak

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What power(s) are they using to achieve this result? Closest I can find to invisibility is "See Me Not" from DH, Invisibility from OW and that tech jinx thing from DH. Depending what they are using we can probably find a counter to them.

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Calgor,

 

All of his powers are from DH1, I've not let hime get his hands on the OW powers

 

His current power list as I remember it (and that are relivent to this issue, he's got ALOT of powers)

 

Minors - Chameleon, Forget Me, Wall Walk (surprisingly problematic), Weapon Jinx, White Noise

 

Majors - Preternatural Awareness, Compel, Dominate, See Me Not

 

As he's running around with Psy Rating 6 and has a knack for not rolling 9's he quite often is able to sustain multiple powers at once (I think his current record is 5)

 

He's alos got a Psi-focus and Force Staff

 

Regards

 

Surak

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Ok. All those are messing with your sense of sight by giving bonuses to concealment. The skill though is worded as evading detection by sight. To counter this, try smell or hearing. Chuck Kroot hounds in, heightened senses of smell would set them off barking to put the place in lock down. That or you rely on the disruption he causes moving around. While you cannot perceive him directly, the power doesn't say he avoids any impact on the world, he isn't incorporeal. So gravel or sand, even some crisps or something around a base, watch for footprints or crunching gravel appearing without a clear identifier of source and fire at will.

 

Rules to hand now, surely things like Weapon Jinx can only target things if he knows they are there surely? He needs to know the machine is there to disrupt. Having a read through, white noise is being the utter swine since it messes with psychic or technological detection. The original rules for Dark heresy powers seem to be written in a system where the only enemies in the area were humans, heretics and low level aliens without much in the way of a gun. Probably not till later did it include Xenos, and I don't believe that Imperium psychic powers can make a total mockery of all alien technology irrespective of origin. For example try using White Noise psychic disruption to stop an Eldar Warlock seeing you with it and he'll likely just look at you and laugh before blowing your head off. Tau technology is effectively better than empire counterparts in many ways. Xenos technology should surely have some better resistance to something like this, it's perhaps a little more reliable or at least technologically sound compared to Imp stuff. To this end I would still argue that things like drone senses or laser detection should still apply or to a lesser degree. This is not about static jamming the signal which sonar or radar probably could, this is a physical break in a laser beam which is interpret as something crossing it and  should not be affected.

 

For wall walk, have you considered spikes? :-) Serious note though, energy barriers or fields might harm him for trying or stop him gripping it. That or make the building design really annoying, it says he has to stop to go from wall to ceiling and vice versa.

Edited by Calgor Grim

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No I think he's using DH Psychic system fully when he mentioned his player doesn't roll 9 on the dice.

 

But if he's using DH power with DW Psychic Power system then you are correct.

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No I think he's using DH Psychic system fully when he mentioned his player doesn't roll 9 on the dice.

 

But if he's using DH power with DW Psychic Power system then you are correct.

 

They're still not compatible (whether ior not he's using the Ascension psychic power rules).

 

DH minor psychic powers are hugely unbalancing in DW due to the large number you can get and the high level of effect for low risk. That's why it... doesn't have Weapon Jinx, it has Curse of the Machine Spirit, that does the same thing but much, much less effectively.

 

My advice: do NOT use Dark Heresy psychic powers in Deathwatch.

Edited by bogi_khaosa

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Calgor,

 

Thanks for those ideas, I've already started putting Kroot Hounds around where I can to make his and the team assassin's life interesting. I agree that Eldar psykers in particular should laugh at Santioned Psykers attempts at manipulating the warp, the problem is the Eldar powers that are avaliable in the 40K rp's seem a little under-powered compared to their Imperial counterpart - this is of course mitigated by the fact you have a Farseer or Warlock casting them without breaking a sweat, but it still doesn't feel right.

 

------------

 

Bogi and Routa,

 

I'm running a DH1 campaign that just happens to borrow the setting from DW - hence posting here - as my players needed a change of pace over Calixis - All the rules that we are using are DH1 with the exception of combat (and so the combat related talents) which I have lifted from OW. I've also shifted to OW style Unnatural bonuses to curb the worst of the overpowering they can cause at ascension level (which the group is rapidly closing in on). Also as my group has just about reached ascension they are already at more or less the same power level as starting marines anyway, so DW NPC stats are more useful to me at the moment than DH1 ones.

 

I suppose I should make clear I don't want to make the psyker completely useless to the group, I just want to make things more challenging as at the moment the groups default solution to all problems Tau is "send in the psyker, they won't find him"

 

-----------------

 

Now to come up with some rules for Kroot/Eldar, Kroot/Orks, other "kroot that have eaten something fun", and Nicassar

 

Ideas on a postcard (or forum post :P )

 

Regards

 

Surak

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No I think he's using DH Psychic system fully when he mentioned his player doesn't roll 9 on the dice.

 

But if he's using DH power with DW Psychic Power system then you are correct.

 

They're still not compatible (whether ior not he's using the Ascension psychic power rules).

 

DH minor psychic powers are hugely unbalancing in DW due to the large number you can get and the high level of effect for low risk. That's why it... doesn't have Weapon Jinx, it has Curse of the Machine Spirit, that does the same thing but much, much less effectively.

 

My advice: do NOT use Dark Heresy psychic powers in Deathwatch.

 

 

Actually, from my experience I'd go with 'do NOT use Dark Heresy psychic powers period'. Dark Heresy Psykers (doubly so in Ascension) are completely out of balance with everything FFG has published since in the setting.

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No I think he's using DH Psychic system fully when he mentioned his player doesn't roll 9 on the dice.

 

But if he's using DH power with DW Psychic Power system then you are correct.

 

They're still not compatible (whether ior not he's using the Ascension psychic power rules).

 

DH minor psychic powers are hugely unbalancing in DW due to the large number you can get and the high level of effect for low risk. That's why it... doesn't have Weapon Jinx, it has Curse of the Machine Spirit, that does the same thing but much, much less effectively.

 

My advice: do NOT use Dark Heresy psychic powers in Deathwatch.

 

 

Actually, from my experience I'd go with 'do NOT use Dark Heresy psychic powers period'. Dark Heresy Psykers (doubly so in Ascension) are completely out of balance with everything FFG has published since in the setting.

 

I think I'm starting to find that out. Unfortunately as they player has been using the character for nearly a year it's a bit too late to change anything that fundimental.

 

Regards

 

Surak

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Irrelevant of how these are imbalanced as a hive tyrant, carnifex and guardsman on the opposite ends of a seesaw, the damage is done. All we can do now is mitigate or counter.

Since the powers are broken, you have freedom to break their defence capabilities in response. Its how I GM with obscure or homebrew. Anything you can use, the NPC can benefit from where appropriate.

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Irrelevant of how these are imbalanced as a hive tyrant, carnifex and guardsman on the opposite ends of a seesaw, the damage is done. All we can do now is mitigate or counter.

Since the powers are broken, you have freedom to break their defence capabilities in response. Its how I GM with obscure or homebrew. Anything you can use, the NPC can benefit from where appropriate.

Calgor,

 

I agree that turn-about is fair play, and I do use any and all rules loopholes that my players find against them. With that in mind I'm going to start looking at the base Kroot stats and see if I can't come up with some sort of rules to account for whatever they've been eating, any suggestions on where to start with the Nicassar would be welcome.

 

Regards

 

Surak

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