2 questions

[thejibboo 0]

1)  I know that generally you can't trigger an ability on a card that is out of play, but can I give a trait to a card that is out of play?  For instance, could I use Old Nan or Songs of Bael the Bard to give a character in my deck the Dragon trait, then search for it with Dance with Dragons?

2)  I can't "play or take control of a unique card" if there is a copy of that card in my dead pile, but as I understand it "put into play" is different than just "play."  If I have a copy of a unique card in my dead pile, and one in my discard, an effect that "puts" that card into play from my discard pile is still fair game, right?  If so, could i then attach the third copy as a duplicate, or would the card in the dead pile prevent me from playing the duplicate? 

[ktom 598]

thejibboo said:

1)  I know that generally you can't trigger an ability on a card that is out of play, but can I give a trait to a card that is out of play?  For instance, could I use Old Nan or Songs of Bael the Bard to give a character in my deck the Dragon trait, then search for it with Dance with Dragons?

Let me put it to you this way: if you could do that, then I could use Icy Catapult ("Limited Response: After attached character leaves play, choose and kill a character without attachments. (Limit 1 Limited Response per round.)") to go searching through your deck to kill characters you haven't even played yet.

 

Cards that are not in play (or events that are not in your hand) are not actionable - either to trigger their effects or as targets for other effects - unless they specifically say otherwise.

thejibboo said:

2)  I can't "play or take control of a unique card" if there is a copy of that card in my dead pile, but as I understand it "put into play" is different than just "play."  If I have a copy of a unique card in my dead pile, and one in my discard, an effect that "puts" that card into play from my discard pile is still fair game, right?  If so, could i then attach the third copy as a duplicate, or would the card in the dead pile prevent me from playing the duplicate?

From the FAQ:

 

"(3.27) Unique Cards and Changing Control
You may not play, put into play, or take control
of a unique card already in play that you
own or control (except for putting a duplicate
on a card that you own and control), or that is
in your dead pile."

So no, you cannot "put into play" a copy of a unique card that is in your dead pile -- by any means.

[thejibboo 0]

thanks for the quick answers ktom!

[thejibboo 0]

okay, i'm sorry, but my first question is still bothering me.  I even looked up "actionable" on dictionary.com and that didn't help.   Is the answer you gave based on the section 3.13 Out Of Play States, from the FAQ?  That section makes it very clear that you can't use the abilities of cards that are out of play, and it says they can't "effect the game."  I guess that's probably the clause that rules out adding a trait to a card in the deck, but it still seems weird to me.  Are the printed traits on cards in the deck "effecting the game?"  If not, how does a trait added to one of those cards effect the game more than the traits it already has.  If i use a card in play to add a trait to a card out of play, then use another in play card to search for it, i never need the out of play card to be "actionable."

I really don't doubt that your answer is correct, i just want to understand why from a hard-and-fast rules perspective.

[thejibboo 0]

nevermind, looked further down the list of definitions on "actionable" and that did answer my question!

[ktom 598]

thejibboo said:

If i use a card in play to add a trait to a card out of play, then use another in play card to search for it, i never need the out of play card to be "actionable."

As you have probably figured out, "not actionable when out-of-play" means both that you cannot use the abilities on the out-of-play card, and that cards that are in-play cannot be used to affect or interact with the out-of-play card. The in-play card cannot be used to affect out-of-play cards any more than the out-of-play card can be used to affect the in-play game state. The street is closed in both directions.