What is the meaning behind "Deathwatch" ?

[Saigneur2 0]

Hello, as I'm french, I would like to know what you think is the meaning behind the association of those 2 words : "Death" and "Watch"... Does it mean like Macabre Guard, Watch over the dead or something else ? Thanks in advance for your inputs.

[Tarkand 1]

Being on a death watch traditionally means that you are sitting at someone's bedside during their last hours and waiting for them to die. Much more common in older days, when the family would gather around the bed of dying kin and essentially start mourning before he was already dead.

The Deathwatch in Space Marine are named this way because they have foreseen the coming doom of humanity (i.e one of their seers predicted humanity would fall to the Xenos) and are trying to stop it... yes, there's a bit of irony in the name.

I'm french as well, and I'm not sure how I would translate (well, I wouldn't to be honest, Deathwatch sounds good) - however, if you just translate it directly (Observateur de la Mort?) not only does it sound kinda silly, but it also loses the meaning of it.

[Saigneur2 0]

Thanks Tarkand ! Yeah, Deathwatch sounds good but I thought people not familiar with english might ask for a translation. Based on what you said I think the best would be "La Veillée Mortuaire" for this pseudo-chapter and simply "Les Veilleurs" for it's members. What do you think ?

[Stormast 1]

Yup, that's what I would use, too.

Plus you get the "Master of the Watch" / "Watch Captain" which translate nicely into "Maître de la Veillée" and "Capitaine de Veillée", or something equivalent.

[Tarkand 1]

Which country are you from? I don't know for others, but in Quebec (French Canadian), 'veillée' also has a connotation for party... 'Une bonne veillée!' = 'A good party'... 'J'ai veillé tard!' = 'I partied all night!' which clash pretty badly with the somber name we're trying to go with here.

Not sure if the word has the same connotation in the rest of the 'francophonie', but if it doesn't, it would indeed be a good translation.

[Saigneur2 0]

We are from France Tarkand and, I don't remember hearing "veillée" associated with something like a party here... And if the french translation of this scenario, "l'Ultime Sanction", was done by french canadians, maybe that's part why it can sounds strange to us.

[Stormast 1]

Yup, sounds like an expression from Québec. Thing is, there are a whole lot of words that they use in a different way than the rest of us lot, so hey

[Macharias the Mendicant 2]

Yeah, "veillé" is one of our "expressions de par chez nous" kind of French Canadian thing we're always so proud of!  But "veillé" is also vigil, so it really works I think.

(but just thinking about a "Réveillon"-style party attended by a bunch of Deathwatch Space Maries is amazing!

 

[Saigneur2 0]

A "Réveillon" being party celebrating something such as the new year for example (le réveillon du nouvel an) I wouldn't see why Deathwach space Marines couldn't have kinds of their own. After all, even Space Marines are known to have celebrations...

[peterstepon 14]

The Black Watch, 3rd Battalion, Royal Regiment of Scotland (3 SCOTS)

 

There is a unit in the British army called the Black Watch.  I assume that they just took that, added Death because it sounded cool, and made a new Chapter based on that. 

[redhead222 0]

might it also have too de that most of the deathwatch base building are on what was a formerly alien world or alien tomb world where the empire know almost nothing about sept they where/are potencaly very dangerus?

(as hinted a lot with the necron stuff in the book)

and if wasn`t one seer it was a lot of them all over the empire from inquisitors, too space marine libs and beyond told then aliens would be the end of the empire.

however nobody could tell what alien it would that did it, so they set up the deathwatch (under much controvery) too hunt down potencal treats, identify them and find out how too kill them the best way (or failing that how too defend them self the best way)

[Siranui 2]

 All of the above, to my mind. There's watching of the dying, and the parallel to the Black Watch (which given GW's lack of any other military acumen, I put down more to coincidence).

There's also the old 'night watch' and 'city watch': Organisations that existed prior to modern police forces to guard and protect the city and its citizens. 

 

Perhaps most importantly, a watch is a period of time: A vigil. I'm not sure what the French term would be, but soldiers on stag/sentry duty are referred to as being 'on watch', and the rolling timetable of ship crews are referred to as 'watches'. Thus a watch is a period of duty, spent in a state of alertness, watching for trouble, and protecting others.

And 'Death' just sounds cool and grimdark...

[Brother Shatterstone 0]

I think its more because it sounds cool (has a good ring to it) than anything else but I found this in a wiki entry and it does sort of have a ring of truth too it.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Deathwatch

"The origins of the Deathwatch are uncertain, but can be traced to the arrival of the Imperial frigate Eisenstein at Terra at the start of the Horus Heresy when a contingent of Loyalist Space Marines from the Traitor Legions came to Terra to inform the Emperor of Mankind that the Warmaster Horus had betrayed him at Istvaan III and been corrupted by Chaos. It is implied that Captain Nathaniel Garro and his Loyalist Death Guard Space Marines, along with Captain Iacton 'Half-Heard' Qruze of the Luna Wolves, were the first members of a new Imperial organization created at the order of the Emperor of Mankind that was the ancestor of the current Imperial Inquisition. While not definitive, it seems likely that the Loyalist Death Guard Space Marines who had arrived at Terra aboard the Eisenstein formed the initial core of the Deathwatch, hence providing the name of the organisation."

 

[Kirov 6]

Brother Shatterstone said:

I think its more because it sounds cool (has a good ring to it) than anything else but I found this in a wiki entry and it does sort of have a ring of truth too it.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Deathwatch

"The origins of the Deathwatch are uncertain, but can be traced to the arrival of the Imperial frigate Eisenstein at Terra at the start of the Horus Heresy when a contingent of Loyalist Space Marines from the Traitor Legions came to Terra to inform the Emperor of Mankind that the Warmaster Horus had betrayed him at Istvaan III and been corrupted by Chaos. It is implied that Captain Nathaniel Garro and his Loyalist Death Guard Space Marines, along with Captain Iacton 'Half-Heard' Qruze of the Luna Wolves, were the first members of a new Imperial organization created at the order of the Emperor of Mankind that was the ancestor of the current Imperial Inquisition. While not definitive, it seems likely that the Loyalist Death Guard Space Marines who had arrived at Terra aboard the Eisenstein formed the initial core of the Deathwatch, hence providing the name of the organisation."

 

Think that would also explain the tradition of Black Shields as well? I mean, if this is indeed how the Deathwatch was formed, then these Loyalist marines of traitor legions would also be the first Black Shields; I seriously doubt that, after this point, they would want anything to do with their old legions.

[N0-1_H3r3 287]

Brother Shatterstone said:

I think its more because it sounds cool (has a good ring to it) than anything else but I found this in a wiki entry and it does sort of have a ring of truth too it.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Deathwatch

"The origins of the Deathwatch are uncertain, but can be traced to the arrival of the Imperial frigate Eisenstein at Terra at the start of the Horus Heresy when a contingent of Loyalist Space Marines from the Traitor Legions came to Terra to inform the Emperor of Mankind that the Warmaster Horus had betrayed him at Istvaan III and been corrupted by Chaos. It is implied that Captain Nathaniel Garro and his Loyalist Death Guard Space Marines, along with Captain Iacton 'Half-Heard' Qruze of the Luna Wolves, were the first members of a new Imperial organization created at the order of the Emperor of Mankind that was the ancestor of the current Imperial Inquisition. While not definitive, it seems likely that the Loyalist Death Guard Space Marines who had arrived at Terra aboard the Eisenstein formed the initial core of the Deathwatch, hence providing the name of the organisation."

 

Except that this directly contradicts the Origins of the Deathwatch given in the Deathwatch rulebook - the Deathwatch was formed at the conclusion of the Apocryphon Conclave, where Astartes Chapters and Inquisitors gathered to debate the threat of the alien and the fate of mankind.

Also, as far as I'm aware, the current direction for Garro is that he and those he gathered at the Sigilite's command became the first Grey Knights.

[Siranui 2]

 A recent audio book (which I haven't heard) covers some of the events that happen to Garro.

Quertze (or however you spell it) the Half-Heard is most recently seen* at an interrogation facility orbiting Titan, where he seems to work and have some authority over, advising Dorn himself and clad in the old grey colour scheme of the Lunar Wolves, with the Legion insignia painted over in plain grey.  Which is a fairly large hint, to my mind.

 

*In the most recent Horus Heresy short-story omnibus

[ak-73 248]

Page 305, Core Rulebook:

"This Chapter was dubbed the ‘Deathwatch’, for it would stand guard against the doom foretold by the conclave."

I don't think there is more to be said about this.

 

Alex

[Face Eater 35]

It's true but It's a bit.... emo for want of a better word.

I'd have preferred if it was named after the formations formed to oversee the final systematic purging of xeno worlds that were captured in the Great Crusade.

[Gantz the slaughterer 1]

hello,

 

in Italian it was translate as:

Guarnigione della morte....

in French I suppose:

Ganison de la mort....

 

cheers

[Face Eater 35]

ak-73 said:

Page 305, Core Rulebook:

"This Chapter was dubbed the ‘Deathwatch’, for it would stand guard against the doom foretold by the conclave."

I don't think there is more to be said about this.

 

Alex

I do like the old Death Guard connection, and very easy to think that even the Deathwatch themselves are kept in the dark about their true origins.