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Talisman: The Dragon Expansion - The newly announced expansion from FFG

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Velhart said:

 

I wonder if you can choose to move back to the entrance of the dragon tower.

Maybe i miss it, but i can;t find it in the dragon rulebook.

 

The section "Turning Back" at page 13 is not referred to Dragon Realm only. It is referred to Inner Region in general, so you can Turn Back up to the entrance of the Dragon Tower, which is called Plain of Peril by the way.

Velhart said:

I also wonder if you can place dragon tokens in the dragon tower.

You can't place them in the inner region.

But the dragon tower description in the rulebook says that after a character ends his turn, all cards and tokens in the dragon tower are discarded.

This sounds like you can still place them..preocupado.gif but i think you can do nothing with them, because they are discarded at the end of a characters turn.

 

Based on the assumption that Dragon Tower = Inner Region, this paragraph applies:

Characters in the Inner Region do not place a
dragon scale on their space; all three dragon scales on the
Dragon King’s card are discarded instead.

The Dragon King can change because Characters in the Inner Region still draw the Dragon tokens, but they do never place them on the spaces of Inner Region.

As you noticed, there's a rule that says that tokens in Dragon Tower are discarded at the end of a Character's turn. We do not know if there are other mechanics that could allow placing Dragon Tokens in the Inner Region, or to move them around. We have to wait and see in the cards. In any case, it doesn't seem to function very well since the rule is Encounter Scale, Encounter Character or Encounter Space (you may have no choice if the scale is from the Dragon King). Characters cannot encounter in the Inner Region except PoP. Encountering Scales will always be preferable to encountering Dragon Tower spaces, because if you fight and win you keep the Scale. Hopefully there will be no way to put tokens in the Inner Region and encounter them.

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The_Warlock said:

 

Velhart said:

 

 

I wonder if you can choose to move back to the entrance of the dragon tower.

Maybe i miss it, but i can;t find it in the dragon rulebook.

 

 

The section "Turning Back" at page 13 is not referred to Dragon Realm only. It is referred to Inner Region in general, so you can Turn Back up to the entrance of the Dragon Tower, which is called Plain of Peril by the way.

 

 

Ah, you are right, it's still a inner region, and you can go back one space per turn and ignoring space instructions..

 

Velhart said:

 

I also wonder if you can place dragon tokens in the dragon tower.

You can't place them in the inner region.

But the dragon tower description in the rulebook says that after a character ends his turn, all cards and tokens in the dragon tower are discarded.

This sounds like you can still place them..preocupado.gif but i think you can do nothing with them, because they are discarded at the end of a characters turn.

 

 

Based on the assumption that Dragon Tower = Inner Region, this paragraph applies:

Characters in the Inner Region do not place a
dragon scale on their space; all three dragon scales on the
Dragon King’s card are discarded instead.

The Dragon King can change because Characters in the Inner Region still draw the Dragon tokens, but they do never place them on the spaces of Inner Region.

As you noticed, there's a rule that says that tokens in Dragon Tower are discarded at the end of a Character's turn. We do not know if there are other mechanics that could allow placing Dragon Tokens in the Inner Region, or to move them around. We have to wait and see in the cards. In any case, it doesn't seem to function very well since the rule is Encounter Scale, Encounter Character or Encounter Space (you may have no choice if the scale is from the Dragon King). Characters cannot encounter in the Inner Region except PoP. Encountering Scales will always be preferable to encountering Dragon Tower spaces, because if you fight and win you keep the Scale. Hopefully there will be no way to put tokens in the Inner Region and encounter them.

 

 

 

It's still confusing.

Dragon tower is also a inner region, so dragon tokens should also be discarded, but if you read the rule that dragon tokens are discarded at the end of a characters turn, then this is a different rule..

The rulebook has already said that if a card effect require a character in the inner region to place a dragon scale in his region, the scale is discarded instead.

I don;t think that you can encounter the scales in the dragon tower, because at the start of the characters turn,. he must draw cards.

But you have a point with the dragon scales. if you win from a enemy, you can keep the scale  before it disappear at the end of that characters turn..

PS: you can also claim the scale if you only encounter the space and defeat a enemy from the dragonlord decks

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It looks like that you can't use arnkell or the cloak of feathers in the dragon tower.

The dragon tower has some special movement, and not normal movementhappy.gif

But then.... you still have those backdoors in the dungeonsad.gif

I see no rules about it in the dragon exp rulebook.

I see a house rule coming...

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Still doing a 8+ attack score vs dungeon boss is a hard thing if you dont use spells. Imo it's a very fair.

I have a question though not sure if it was covered in the rules couldn't find it. Can there be several dragon scale tokens on the same space if they are of different color?

If not, Is there any situation where you would draw more than 1 dragon card per space? (except the dragon tower inner region board)

Regards
Amir

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Velhart said:

It looks like that you can't use arnkell or the cloak of feathers in the dragon tower.

The dragon tower has some special movement, and not normal movementhappy.gif

But then.... you still have those backdoors in the dungeonsad.gif

I see no rules about it in the dragon exp rulebook.

I see a house rule coming...

Dragon Tower can be skipped going through the Dungeon or using Arnkell/Cloak of Feathers. "Normal movement" is not "roll the die for movement", otherwise the Arnkell would have been ruled illegal in Inner Region, where normal movement = move 1 space.

If you don't like this easy-going alternative, you may follow the "Challenge for the Crown" variant. With Arnkell you may skip the Inner Region, but then you're in the Dragon Tower. Of course, if a Character has Arnkell AND Cloak of Feathers he will proceed anyway, but the chances are very low. If you get to the Crown via Treasure Chamber and have the Arnkell you can reach the Dragon King in a blink, but this is also pretty difficult. The Dragon King is a tougher opponent than the Lord of Darkness.

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Persiatic said:

 

I have a question though not sure if it was covered in the rules couldn't find it. Can there be several dragon scale tokens on the same space if they are of different color?

If not, Is there any situation where you would draw more than 1 dragon card per space? (except the dragon tower inner region board)

 

 

Dragon Rules page 8:

The character then takes one dragon scale from the Dragon
King’s card and places it on the character’s space. If the space
already has a dragon scale, it is placed in the next space
counterclockwise that does not already have a dragon scale.

If every space in the Region already has a dragon scale, the
dragon scale is discarded and the character must suffer the
Dragon Rage of the Dragon King instead (see “Dragon Rage”
on page 15).

No more than 1 scale per space will be possible. If all the Region is filled with scales, you suffer the Dragon Rage instead of placing another scale.

I don't think there's a situation where you draw multiple cards, except dragon tower.

According to the example on page 12, the Dragon Cards that are encountered but not defeated, become face-up cards on the space and count towards the card draw on that space. If the Conjurer decides to encounter the Dragon Scale, he has to draw a new card (the Carrion Drake is part of the space encounter). But if you draw a Dragon card and don't defeat it, it stays on the space. Repeating this situation many times will result in piling up a pack of Dragons (or other things) on a space and making it impossible to encounter without damage, until Characters are powerful enough.

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The_Warlock said:

 

 

 

Dragon Tower can be skipped going through the Dungeon or using Arnkell/Cloak of Feathers. "Normal movement" is not "roll the die for movement", otherwise the Arnkell would have been ruled illegal in Inner Region, where normal movement = move 1 space.

If you don't like this easy-going alternative, you may follow the "Challenge for the Crown" variant. With Arnkell you may skip the Inner Region, but then you're in the Dragon Tower. Of course, if a Character has Arnkell AND Cloak of Feathers he will proceed anyway, but the chances are very low. If you get to the Crown via Treasure Chamber and have the Arnkell you can reach the Dragon King in a blink, but this is also pretty difficult. The Dragon King is a tougher opponent than the Lord of Darkness.

Cloak of feathers says: instead of moving normally.

But in the dragon tower, you movement is not normal.

You must begin your turn with drawing dragon cards. and then you can't use the cloak of feathers anymore.

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I am thinking of using the original text space of the lord of darkness from third edition  while playing with the dragon tower or dragon realm, that if you defeat him, you land on the portal of power.

I think that it's a big mistake that FFG has allow a backdoor in the game. i never like it..

But first, my opponent must agree with it..happy.gif

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I hope that the card list from the dragon expansion will come soon

Maybe that someone who have buy the expansion at gencon , can give us a card list?happy.gif

That would be appreciatedgui%C3%B1o.gif

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Velhart said:

The_Warlock said:

 

 Dragon Tower can be skipped going through the Dungeon or using Arnkell/Cloak of Feathers. "Normal movement" is not "roll the die for movement", otherwise the Arnkell would have been ruled illegal in Inner Region, where normal movement = move 1 space.

If you don't like this easy-going alternative, you may follow the "Challenge for the Crown" variant. With Arnkell you may skip the Inner Region, but then you're in the Dragon Tower. Of course, if a Character has Arnkell AND Cloak of Feathers he will proceed anyway, but the chances are very low. If you get to the Crown via Treasure Chamber and have the Arnkell you can reach the Dragon King in a blink, but this is also pretty difficult. The Dragon King is a tougher opponent than the Lord of Darkness.

 

 

Cloak of feathers says: instead of moving normally.

But in the dragon tower, you movement is not normal.

You must begin your turn with drawing dragon cards. and then you can't use the cloak of feathers anymore.

I don't have Cloak or Arnkell in front of me, but I think their text refers to the normal movement permitted by your current position on the board, it doesn't detail when they shall be used. Since they work in the Inner Region (and Dragon Realm) with no doubt, they shall work in Dragon Tower also, with the exception that the movement happens at the end of the turn and not at the beginning. Strange thing is: if you have to move back because you lost a combat on a Staircase, you might be able to use those items to teleport to the Crown, since there's no difference between moving forward and back (both are normal movements, as they follow movements rules for the Dragon Tower region).

You may also be right, though. This is one of the first things to ask for clarification, before someone starts to play and comes to this crucial point.

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The_Warlock said:

 

Velhart said:

 

The_Warlock said:

 

 Dragon Tower can be skipped going through the Dungeon or using Arnkell/Cloak of Feathers. "Normal movement" is not "roll the die for movement", otherwise the Arnkell would have been ruled illegal in Inner Region, where normal movement = move 1 space.

If you don't like this easy-going alternative, you may follow the "Challenge for the Crown" variant. With Arnkell you may skip the Inner Region, but then you're in the Dragon Tower. Of course, if a Character has Arnkell AND Cloak of Feathers he will proceed anyway, but the chances are very low. If you get to the Crown via Treasure Chamber and have the Arnkell you can reach the Dragon King in a blink, but this is also pretty difficult. The Dragon King is a tougher opponent than the Lord of Darkness.

 

 

Cloak of feathers says: instead of moving normally.

But in the dragon tower, you movement is not normal.

You must begin your turn with drawing dragon cards. and then you can't use the cloak of feathers anymore.

 

 

I don't have Cloak or Arnkell in front of me, but I think their text refers to the normal movement permitted by your current position on the board, it doesn't detail when they shall be used. Since they work in the Inner Region (and Dragon Realm) with no doubt, they shall work in Dragon Tower also, with the exception that the movement happens at the end of the turn and not at the beginning. Strange thing is: if you have to move back because you lost a combat on a Staircase, you might be able to use those items to teleport to the Crown, since there's no difference between moving forward and back (both are normal movements, as they follow movements rules for the Dragon Tower region).

You may also be right, though. This is one of the first things to ask for clarification, before someone starts to play and comes to this crucial point.

 

 

The difference is  that in the normal inner region, you have a choice to use the cloak of feathers before you move 

In the dragon tower, you have no choice. You must already draw cards at the start of your turn, before you can use the cloak.

cloak of feathers says: instead of moving normally.   (but start of turn is first.gui%C3%B1o.gif

After you killed a enemy or lose from it, you go automatically some spaces forward in the tower. There is no time to use the cloak. This goes also for the stairs.

 

But we need some clarification indeed.

The question is: is there time to use such objects, or spells before you must move forward or backward. I feel that there is no time because you must move.

 

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Velhart said:

 

 

The question is: is there time to use such objects, or spells before you must move forward or backward. I feel that there is no time because you must move.

 

 

In Talisman you always must move, you can't stay were you are. Every move is compulsory and this shall not be a reason to disallow effects that change movement.

In Dragon Tower you move after encountering the space, instead of moving before encountering the space. You move according to the outcome of the encounter: 1 space forward + 1 space per defeated Enemy, or 1 space backwards if you're defeated on a Staircase. Iit's still a movement and the normal movement for that Region.

We will never find sufficient data and arguments to find a 100% right answer. An official answer will do the job. Will you try to mail John Goodenough?

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The_Warlock said:

In Talisman you always must move, you can't stay were you are. Every move is compulsory and this shall not be a reason to disallow effects that change movement.

In Dragon Tower you move after encountering the space, instead of moving before encountering the space. You move according to the outcome of the encounter: 1 space forward + 1 space per defeated Enemy, or 1 space backwards if you're defeated on a Staircase. Iit's still a movement and the normal movement for that Region.

We will never find sufficient data and arguments to find a 100% right answer. An official answer will do the job. Will you try to mail John Goodenough?

Yes, i have sent the question to John Goodenough.

I know that you always must move, but let's wait what John Goodenough will say.

You have a good point, and maybe you are right, that it can be used after you have encountered the dragon cards..gui%C3%B1o.gif

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I was really thinking this was going to be available in August.  It appears to be a September target now.  I haven't been this impatient for awhile!

I've got a game night all set up for the first friday of September thinking i'd have this in my hands by now...better late than never still, that's for sure.

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Blackalliance said:

I was really thinking this was going to be available in August.  It appears to be a September target now.  I haven't been this impatient for awhile!

I've got a game night all set up for the first friday of September thinking i'd have this in my hands by now...better late than never still, that's for sure.

Yeah, i was also hoping that it was available earlier in august, but i am afraid that it will be released at the end of august..

it seems indeed that we get it in septembersad.gif

That boat must speed up!

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yepimadork said:

 A friend pick up the Dragon expansion for me at Gen-Con last week. I have only gotten to play one game so far and I have to say this expansion is great. The Dragon Lords game mechanic is really fun. The new characters are also really good. Great job Fantasy Flight! 

I just have one request. PLEASE release a larger box to carry all this stuff. 

Hi there,

is it possible that you can make a card list from that expansion.

I am curious what for cards are included in the dragon expansion..happy.gif

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So when is it actually going to hit the stores? On the site it says August but I live in Sweden and when I have contacted some retailers they don't have any information or some have said October. Is it so that US will get it in August but Europe have to wait until October?

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Persiatic said:

So when is it actually going to hit the stores? On the site it says August but I live in Sweden and when I have contacted some retailers they don't have any information or some have said October. Is it so that US will get it in August but Europe have to wait until October?

I also live in Sweden, and yes. Usually we have to wait one or two months after the release in the US until we get it. Atleast so was the case with The Highland and The sacred pool.

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Persiatic said:

So when is it actually going to hit the stores? On the site it says August but I live in Sweden and when I have contacted some retailers they don't have any information or some have said October. Is it so that US will get it in August but Europe have to wait until October?

Maelstrom Games says it is availible 17/9. I always order from there cos´ of their low prices

Regards

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Looking at boardgamegeek, i like the artwork from Dragon Slayers.

It's a big dragon, on a big stone

The artwork with a dragon on the big tower, which you can see that the surrounding area is in flames, could be the domain of dragon ending.

Great artwork!aplauso.gif

 

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