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Darth Smeg

Request for Input: How to royally screw over a Tech-Priest

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I have never had a problem with tech-priests in my games, but then again I’m so used to Math Hammerers that my solution to tech priests is simply play it 100% by the book. (unless completely not covered) Basically the main thing I’ve noticed is that it’s actually really hard to get a lot of cash in the game and tech-priests upgrades are ridiculously expensive. What this means is that yes, they can get the talents to use all sorts of upgrades but the actual components are pretty far between, and unless they are Artificers (not possible in ranks 1-8) than they will not be able to make the needed components. In the game I am currently running the Tech-Priest is rank 6 (along with everyone else) and he has only been able to afford a couple mechadendrites even with the other four players chipping in. And just to keep it clear I treat all of my players this way, only when a player is struggling to keep up with the other players will I give them any leeway with equipment, because honestly equipment should never make the character, and that goes with tech-priests too, yes its cool to have a grav-system or magneto-implants or any of the multitude of mechadendrites, but they are all expensive and most tech-priests don’t have the fellowship skills to get the prices down. In one of my last sessions my tech-priest got chewed up pretty good and lost an arm, he had to sell most of his weapons (and a couple of his team members weapons) on the black market just to afford a common quality cybernetic replacement at reduced cost from the local Temple of the Omnissiah.
I know that dosnt really help with your current tech-priest(s) but the usual way is to gear an encounter so that the opponents have something to counter each of your players strengths and take advantage of their weaknesses. And if they have all that fun interesting gear make sure that he has to use it in non combat situations, make sure that they can not succeed without it so that when you start hitting him with things that can hurt him (like plasma and turbo-pen rounds) the other players and hopefully the tech-priest will think twice about throwing himself out there.
And more quick thing, the players have no idea what you have planned, if they are winning an encounter to easily see what they are doing and throw in something else, one of my favorites is the krack missile team in the back, they never see that coming. And I haven’t seen anything (Tech-priests and marines) who can take more than 1 Krack missile and be normal. Not in regular Dark-Heresy game.

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Warp spiders teleport around and are really annoying to fight, they are fast and have high armour and strong yet low AP weapons that shoot a lot.  In the Computer Game they carry Haywire grenades which is probably why ArchGirbil thinks they are good for AdMechs.  In the actual game and fluff and back story Warp Spiders do not carry haywire grenades.  Its actually the Swooping Hawks that carry haywire grenades (and originally storm guardians) and the reason for this is that swooping hawks are a multi-role quick strike unit while warp spiders are an anti-infantry unit.

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Actually, on the tabletop spiders are actually quite capable when it comes to disabling low-armor vehicles due to the high strength of their guns. It also allows them to insta-kill any human-toughness multiwound model they wound and bypass the Feel No Pain rule such models may have (strength twice higher than enemy toughness) , so they are decent assassins and saboteurs as well.

 

Swooping hawks under their current rules are simply schizophrenic and overcosted, but that is another topic. Have FFG actually statted either for the RPGs?

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Yes, Warp Spiders are pretty good at anything under armour 12.  Back when there was still a Craft Worlds Codex I used to run a Biel-Tan army with 5 squads of warp spiders, 2 Farseers and 4 war walkers... broken, but fun and kinda silly :-p  And your right about the new birdie rules, without Haywire Grenades and a lack of armour or firepower, they are pretty much useless, although schizophrenic, nice description.  But I'm getting off topic.

No, there have been no official or even hints at FFG releasing a stat package for warp spiders or swooping hawks.  In fact the only Eldar that I know of that FFG has put out is the Corsair in the Rogue Trader book.  Its a good base if you want to create your own, I've used that as the base to create a Harlequin and even a custom heavy armour eldar, enven created some wraith guard for a Rogue Trader Mission, that was a fun time.

I think there are rules for weapons that are close to the Spinner Riffles and Haywire grenades and their armour is much like space marine power armour, so that could be used as a rule base if you want to create your own.  The rules for the spider jump pack would be interesting to come up with.

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The_Shaman said:

Were there rules for haywire grenades in DH?

No, there aren't. Haywire grenades are covered in the Rogue Trader supplement Into the Storm (p.116). The only "anti-Tech-priest" weapon in DH so far is the the Haywire rifle found on page 151 of The Radical's Handbook.

If you are looking for additional material from the other games, then Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) grenades, which are a generic version of the Haywire grenade are detailed in Deathwatch on page 151. The Techxorcism gun detailed in the Deathwatch supplement Rites of Battle on page 138 and 141 would be another highly effective anti-Tech-Priest weapon. Deathwatch also adds the Haywire weapon special quality which details how an EMP works.

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What weapons that have the warp weapon quality? The warp weapon quality ignores armor, and if all else fails, the rites battle book has stats for void grenades. Orbital bombardment from a sword class frigate or larger capitol vessel might blast the tech priest into tiny pieces. If the player of a tech priest is just being a **** about how powerful their character is, simply destroying the planet they stand on can work wonders.

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The burning princess is stated out in the NPC section of the Accension supplement for Dark Heresy. Her pyrokinetics abilities might allow her to reduce a tech priest into smoldering metal, and a powerful telekinetic can simply turn them into a marrionete dancing about on invisible strings. Using a greater daemon might give an offending tech priest pause, though it might take the greater daemon more than one round to reduce the tech priest into scrap.

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The burning princess is stated out in the NPC section of the Accension supplement for Dark Heresy. Her pyrokinetics abilities might allow her to reduce a tech priest into smoldering metal, and a powerful telekinetic can simply turn them into a marrionete dancing about on invisible strings. Using a greater daemon might give an offending tech priest pause, though it might take the greater daemon more than one round to reduce the tech priest into scrap.

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@ Black Kestrel - ah, ok. If they are statted in RT importing them in DH should be simple enough - most weapons have a similar statline across the games (or should, at least), and at the high levels using enemies using xenos tech is far from unlikely. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the Imperium doesn't have something similar anyway.

 

dwraley said:

What weapons that have the warp weapon quality? The warp weapon quality ignores armor, and if all else fails, the rites battle book has stats for void grenades. Orbital bombardment from a sword class frigate or larger capitol vessel might blast the tech priest into tiny pieces. If the player of a tech priest is just being a **** about how powerful their character is, simply destroying the planet they stand on can work wonders.

Eh, mostly daemonic/warp entities and their attacks, generally. I'm AFB right now, but I think some eldar weapons (wraithcannons of varying sizes) can do it too.

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Exactly right Shaman, warp weapons ignore both armour and toughness, although in my opinion this is a little too powerful, I think that it should ignore armour and unnatural toughness but not the base toughness bonus becuase this describes the core durability of the being.  The other thing I don't like about the listed wraith cannons is that it says it shoots a bolt of unstable exotic matter, this is counter to the the GW fluff that says the D-Cannons and Wraith Cannons use advanced warp field technology to open a tare into the warp seemingly out of thin air.  Basically the stronger the gun, the longer away it can function the warp fields and the bigger a hole it can rip.  The reason I make this point is becuase a wraith cannon or a D-Cannon would ignore shields, as the superheavy Eldar Cobra MKII does.

A while back before I had the Lure of the Expanse book I created my own Wraith Guard, turns out the ones I made were almost identical to the ones in the book, kinda funny. :-p But not the point.  The point is that wraith guard are a great way of showing players that their equipment does not make them powerful, the fact that they are thinking people makes them powerful.  I put the team of 5 players and 4 NPCs with power armour and awesome guns against 4 Wraith Guard, 1 NPC is dead, another has no face (critical damage with energy) and not a single player made it out without damage.  After this the players started paying more attention to what they were doing and not being so head strong about how powerful they are.

Other warp weapons exist in the game so don't be afraid to have some heretics, xenos, or heretechs using warp weapons, especially if the players are above rank 6, they should have plenty of skills and talents and some reasonable equipment to take on an enemy that is technically stronger than they are.

Wraith Guard  / wraith cannon Lure of the Expanse pg 132 / 134

By the way, what book actually has warp weapons in it other than the Lure of the Expanse wraith cannon?  I took a look through for where the Warp property is listed and couldn't find it.  It's not terribly important but I'd like to know.

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Artanyis said:

Exactly right Shaman, warp weapons ignore both armour and toughness, although in my opinion this is a little too powerful, I think that it should ignore armour and unnatural toughness but not the base toughness bonus becuase this describes the core durability of the being.  The other thing I don't like about the listed wraith cannons is that it says it shoots a bolt of unstable exotic matter, this is counter to the the GW fluff that says the D-Cannons and Wraith Cannons use advanced warp field technology to open a tare into the warp seemingly out of thin air.

]

 

On warp weapons and toughness - I think it is ok as it is, it's meant to be very powerful. Toughness may be the core durability of something, but warp weapons use, well, the properties of the warp itself. It doesn't matter how tough you are when part of you is being ripped across various dimensions - all it matters is if you can handle the raw damage.

On the description, though, you are right. That sounds like the DE disintegrator guns, not the eldar D-cannon technology.

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I hate to join in on a post so late, but ...

Take a good long look at table 6-2, p. 162 of the core book. It's the Psychic Phenomena chart for Psykers. Look under result 69-71. Tech scorn is a momentary thing, caused by the warp, but any enterprising Psyker or Sorceror who wants to develop the thing into an effect that's longer lasting could truly mess up a Tech-Priest's day. I did so in my game.

When my Psyker developed it, I used WP vs. the Toughness of the targeted Tech Priest (fully mechanicus items, i.e. a non-living item assume a Toughness of 30), with failure resulting in the effect lasting for a number of rounds equal to the failure levels of the Tech Priest. Success by the Tech Priest means it fails to effect him and he cannot be targeted again by this ability for 24 hours. 

TECH SCORN is a biomancy discipline, has a threshold of 17, focus time is a full action, range equal to the Psyker's WP bonus, will affect a number of targets equal to the Psyker's WP bonus and cannot be sustained. The Psyker gets a +10 to their WP roll for every 8 points of Overbleed. Finally, because it so closely resembles warp effects, any roll requiring a Phenomena effect does so on 8s & 9s (this last effect will not occur on fettered rolls).

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Exactly the above happened in our last session. The Tech-Priest was busily trading blows with an enemy Assasin, encased in Power-Armour, wielding a Power-Fist, having bionic arms, legs and eyes. His Psyker-Friend rolled Tech Scorn and he was essentially defeated. Alternately, just plain heavy weapons work well against a tech-priest who wont have too much in the region of dodge..one or two Krak-Missiles could really ruin their day.

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 You could always strand them on an agrarian feudal world with low/no-tech, and then have something malfunction with their cybernetic systems.  Broken hydraulics, leaking fluids, cracked power cells.  THEN after they have cannibalized their spare equipment and weapons, have the world come under attack by xenos or heretics.  

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Kronus said:

Exactly the above happened in our last session. The Tech-Priest was busily trading blows with an enemy Assasin, encased in Power-Armour, wielding a Power-Fist, having bionic arms, legs and eyes. His Psyker-Friend rolled Tech Scorn and he was essentially defeated. Alternately, just plain heavy weapons work well against a tech-priest who wont have too much in the region of dodge..one or two Krak-Missiles could really ruin their day.

If this is the lvl you guys are playing at... anything goes... Just keep in mind the short short short life span a power armour has.

 

Isidro

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My players are going near Ascension-Level and prior to the said engagement they had ample time to suit up and prepare themselves. By the way, why exaclty has power armor "1w5" hours of power stored? Wouldnt a set amount be much more realistic (if you charged it up fully of course) than a totally random amount of time?

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The power armour has a set short amount of time becuase the standard human power armour uses batteries and these batteries have diffrenent life spans depending on quality and age and also the amount of activity in the power armour is going to use more or less power.  Basically if you get a brand new battery with 5 hrs of life and spend 3 hrs laying on your stomach not moving you will probably get at least the 5 hrs of life.  Now if you are instantly thrown into a boarding action and are fighting tooth and nail for 2 hrs you'll be lucky to get to the 3hr mark.

The main difference between normal human power armour and Astarties power armour is that the Space Marines have small generators in there packs.  Fluff switches back and forth on what these generators are changing from nuclear to fusion to fission and back, but point is, space marines don't use batteries.

And Back to the conversation, I like the idea of Tech Scorn, I had not thought of that. :-D
And back on the first (possibly second) page I had also mentioned the Krack missiles, great thing to throw at the players, USUALLY wont kill a high level player in one hit but he will be feeling it and it will also destroy armour, equipment and components.

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I dont have my books with me at the moment, but the krack rockets i use are actually the astarties ones from the Death Watch book.  As far as item destruction from AP weapons there is a side note section at least in Rogue Trader about massive damage causing damage to armour and items.  It's mostly a GM call but there are some guidelines.

Basically think about it, think about it logically, most AP weaponry is made for going through personal armour or even tanks, if something with that much destructive force hits you, there is a very good chance that it will cause damage to equipment, at the very least armour where it hit.

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Hi Darth,

I just started thinking of you and you Tech-Priest-Problem while thumbing through my PDF of "Mark of the Xenos". One of the heretek contstructs (Samech Redemption Servitor) features the following weapon:

Techxorcism Cannon
(60m; S/–/–; 2d10+6 E; Pen Special††; Clip —; Rld —; Haywire(1), Recharge, Shocking, Special††).

††The Techxorcism Cannon ignores all armour. If a target hit by this weapon has any cybernetics, his Toughness Test against the Shocking Quality is at a –20 penalty.

Since I do not own DW core rules, I have no idea what "Haywire(1)" actually means. But if you install this into one of your battle servitors [Q: The standard
configuration includes a techxorcism cannon—usually installed in the chest and fired through the gullet— for neutralising other technological enemies and scavenging machines that may not be completely inert.
] or simply turn it into some bulky exotic weapon with 15kg energy-backpack you might have a neat tech-zooka to blast away at your Tech-Priest.
 

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