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Niles_Draconia

RoB Question of Advance "Classes"

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Hello everyone I've been looking through the fourm as well as used the search function and couldn't find it but as I'm new to the Deathwatch game. As I've made a Space Wolf Tactical Marine for the game I'm playing in I plan on being the leader of the kill-team and wanting to take up the Watch Captain advance setup but I'm confused about the skill table for it as it lists the Command skills all 3 advancements for like 200 xp apiece but how is one suppose to buy these skills when you don't ever have access to them as the requirement to be a Watch captain is to already have Command +20? This has been bugging me and the GM hasn't really given me a clear answer on how this works. He told me that it basically means that they just duplicate skills in charts like that for no apparent reason. But a section in the RoB book mention that you can buy things from the cheaper table if you have access to the table but how can one obtain access to a table that already requires said skills?

 

Thanks for the help

Niles

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I'd say they duplicated for no reason, and this one is particularly silly.

It "feels right" for a Watch Captain to have cheap Command advance, but it feels even more right for him to already have Command +20 so I'd just ignore it ;)

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Okay. I was hoping to get the skills a bit ealier then say Rank 7 since I have to use the Normal Space Marine Advancement tables. As the Tactical advancements are nothing more then talents and the Space wolves have nothing except but skills that would help in surviving.

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You have to look at this from a few different directions.

First, Ultramarines have access to Command up to +20 for just being an Ultramarine.  As my Tactical Marine was an Ultramarine I didn't notice if Command was available to Tactical Marines as I already had the option for maxing it out early as an Ultramarine.

 

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Shoot, I hit post to soon.

Lastly, you have to realize that some of the "prestige classes" are easly accessed by certain classes.  Some people will have an easier time in achieving the intended "prestige class" because options are available to them earlier on or they just fit well with the starting players' class.

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Mexican Ninja:

 

I understand that with some easier "Classes" or Chapter starting off makes it easier as with the Ultramarines. I don't like them nor the Black Templars got my reasons for it. But since I've known about Warhammer 40k. The Space Wolves have always been my favorite. I have minitures for them. I play the games such as Dawn of War series of games as a Space Wolf Chapter with online play since your stuck as a Blood Raven for Single Player Campaign. They just fit my personality and way of thinking the best. Even though they have colorful history they still seem the be the underdogs of the chapters because everyone seems to think of them as nothing more then mindless dogs when they are far more then that. I just wish that I didn't have to wait until I think Rank 4 to take up Command +10 and then another two ranks before taking up Command +20. I just don't see it making sense to put the cheaper of the command skills in the chart of the advance spec as it makes me confused and probably a few others too. If the class already requires you to have it it's best not to put those skills apart of the chart.

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I never said I disagreed with you.  One of my biggest gripes is the chaplain, it states Space Wolves can't become one...WTF!?  They have Wolf Priests which do the exact same thing as a Chaplain...only better.  I am an avid Space Puppy fan as well.

I'm sure by talking to your GM or through some role-play you'd be able to get the command skill sooner than later.  Remember, the GM has the ability to change things as they see fit.  They should never be "bound-by-the-book".  This will only end up in the players' favor anyway.

I doubt DW is pulling Blood Claws into the organization.  Grey Hunters, Long Fangs, and Wolf Scouts all have leadership qualities.  It's all about how you present your case to the GM.

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You can always talk your GM into giving it to you as Elite Advances, that is getting them earlier at a price you'll decide together (for example you could say the same price as the Ultramarines, or 100 xp more...).

That would be cool of him, not game breaking at all, and allow you to have much more fun with your character, so all in all a good idea ;)

PS: as for SW Chaplains, the thing is, the Space Puppies have a weird way of seeing themselves, of seeing cohesion and of seeing psykers/chaplains/anything that should be normal ;) So, their apothecaries heal wounds with ale, but that's OK, but their Wolf Priests are too strange to comme to the Deathwatch (they wouldn't do enough good, plus it would take some adaptation).

And Deathwatch Chaplain means you become a Chaplain in the Deathwatch. No Chaplain is seconded to the Deathwatch (well there may be exceptions but that's in general), and those who become Deathwatch Chaplains have to be a little "orthodox" as they are Chaplains for battle-brothers from all the chapters ;) Therefore, no Space Puppy Chaplain. Black Templars could be ruled out, too, but let's face it, a Chaplain's job is hate, and Templars sure handle hate quite well. Plus they would really be missing a lot of fun, being forbidden to be Librarians (no kidding...) and Chaplains.

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MexicanNinja:

LOL I did see that we Space Wolves don't get much love in this game. I'm taking up the Rival Duel Fighter Deed as the GM said we could take one up as the Second in Command Deed I already paid the XP for. But it's going to making one of hell of a time in RP as we have a Devastator Marine that is of a DA "Sub-chapter" in it. I tend to use the book as I don't like to bug the hell out of the GM a lot. I've been asking a lot of questions about different thing and I feel I'm annoying them with my questions.

Stormast:

I don't have a problem with them not being apothicaries as there are many traditions that i see with the space wolves the deathwatch would find very strange or very useless along many other things. Chaplins seemed to have been more of the Ultramarine thing anyway at least from what I've seen of the models. I only really know bits and pieces of Deathwatch so I'm still reading through the book and learning what the Deathwatch is vs a Space Wolves.

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Niles_Draconia said:

MexicanNinja:

LOL I did see that we Space Wolves don't get much love in this game. I'm taking up the Rival Duel Fighter Deed as the GM said we could take one up as the Second in Command Deed I already paid the XP for. But it's going to making one of hell of a time in RP as we have a Devastator Marine that is of a DA "Sub-chapter" in it. I tend to use the book as I don't like to bug the hell out of the GM a lot. I've been asking a lot of questions about different thing and I feel I'm annoying them with my questions.

Solo-mode, thats always on. Chapter specific wargear that isn't a relic. Counter-attack talent for free (not just as an option in chapter advances).

And Space Wolves get no love he says.

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A Solo Mode Ability that requires you leave your head exposed.  A Squad Mode Ability that can't be used at all unless other SWs are in the group.  Psychic Powers that are mostly useless (apart from a fantastic one...at Rank 5).  Limited choices in class with no access to some of the more useful ones (Apothecary, Chaplain).  No stat bonuses in the main combat areas (WS, BS, Str, Toughness, Agi).

Space Wolves are okay now thanks to the errata (and Counter Attack rocks), but they still have plenty of drawbacks.

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This doesn't protain to the topic that I had started but I figured I might as well ask it without opening up a new topic. Does anyone have a place or can give me a timeline of all the campaigns and such SW's have been involved that would help me with a way for this guy to be apart of the game. I'm seriously unsure on how many campaigns one would have fought in and hell I'm usnure how long SM's live in general to make an decent history without feel like a lot of smoke.

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Niles_Draconia said:

Mexican Ninja:

 

I understand that with some easier "Classes" or Chapter starting off makes it easier as with the Ultramarines. I don't like them nor the Black Templars got my reasons for it. But since I've known about Warhammer 40k. The Space Wolves have always been my favorite. I have minitures for them. I play the games such as Dawn of War series of games as a Space Wolf Chapter with online play since your stuck as a Blood Raven for Single Player Campaign. They just fit my personality and way of thinking the best. Even though they have colorful history they still seem the be the underdogs of the chapters because everyone seems to think of them as nothing more then mindless dogs when they are far more then that. I just wish that I didn't have to wait until I think Rank 4 to take up Command +10 and then another two ranks before taking up Command +20. I just don't see it making sense to put the cheaper of the command skills in the chart of the advance spec as it makes me confused and probably a few others too. If the class already requires you to have it it's best not to put those skills apart of the chart.

FOR RUSS AND THE ALL FATHER BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!.............AWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Brand said:

A Solo Mode Ability that requires you leave your head exposed. 

A Squad Mode Ability that can't be used at all unless other SWs are in the group. 

And then you get a helmet that bypasses the problem totally.

...Just like everyone else's. Until you get one of the four separate ways of bypassing the stricture as given in RoB so others can use the squad mode.

 

Space Wolves get plenty of love now. It's the Imperial Fists that I feel sorry for.

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Naaaaaaaaaah they could be really cool...Psykers...Yeah, right.

I as a GM would not allow that much easily to let Space Wolves bypass the problem. I'd say, "You wanna use the Solo Mode? OK, go helmetless and lose a Half Action" (or whatever is needed, don't remember) "if you get surprised".

Frankly, that's just cheesing and I HATE the fenrissian-pattern helmet. I'd eventually allow it to give a little boost to a Space Puppy who has really poor Armor History rolls (like a flat Mk. 7 with a poor history or something like that). That way I'd compensate if the other players get cool stuff and he has a "normal" armor. But any other case, just no.

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Stormast said:

Naaaaaaaaaah they could be really cool...Psykers...Yeah, right.

I as a GM would not allow that much easily to let Space Wolves bypass the problem. I'd say, "You wanna use the Solo Mode? OK, go helmetless and lose a Half Action" (or whatever is needed, don't remember) "if you get surprised".

Frankly, that's just cheesing and I HATE the fenrissian-pattern helmet. I'd eventually allow it to give a little boost to a Space Puppy who has really poor Armor History rolls (like a flat Mk. 7 with a poor history or something like that). That way I'd compensate if the other players get cool stuff and he has a "normal" armor. But any other case, just no.

Despite the fact that the Wolves are one of only two Chapters who get a Solo Mode that's no use in combat, and the Wolf has to expose himself to a head-shot to use his? Seems a bit harsh to me!

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My opinion as a GM ;)

Before Counter-Attack, I really found the Wolves underwhelming. Now they have it, and it's cool, so I'm more of a bi-atch about the Solo Mode. But that's just my opinion here ^^ I'm a somehow sadistic GM, sometimes.

But I'd rather try and ambush them than just headshot him with a ninja lascannon from 600m ;) So I think it evens out.

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You shouldn't need a gimmick to make a character's abilities useful.  If it's that way for everyone, fine, but it sucks when a group gets singled out with these problems.

Other Chapters can still use their Squad Mode Abilities even if they're the only Chapter member in the group.  Pack Tactics requires another SW to be around to gain any use from it, which means it's only viable if you have some way to extend that to other party members (like with a SW Tac).  No other abilities have that restriction.

The SWs got some love with Counter Attack and Flesh Render, but I'd rate them nowhere near the top of the list of Chapters, mechanics-wise.  They're still by far the coolest, though.  cool.gif

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SomVone said:

 How on earth are perception bonuses not useful in combat?

Perception wins fights, often more then something like strength or agility.

Perception is not primarily a combat stat.  It's great to avoid ambushes.  It'll help you see the Hive Tyrant coming to kill you.  It won't do a **** thing to dodge the Genestealer's strike or help you punch through the CSM's armor.

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