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Lord Loren Soth

a few questions

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 Hello Guys

we have a few questions on some rules 

1) if a character start his movement on the ruins/crags space can he enter the dungeon/highlands board?

2) in the final combat between a character and the dungeon lord/eagle king can he use spells, followers and weapons like swords/psionic blast/unicorn or absolutely no weapons/magic/followers allowed?

3) if a character land on the sentinel/portal of power spaces with exact movement can he try to defeat the sentinel/open the portal or he must have at least another movement point to go to the other side?

that's all for now, thanks in advance for your responses :)

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Lord Loren Soth said:

 Hello Guys

we have a few questions on some rules 

1) if a character start his movement on the ruins/crags space can he enter the dungeon/highlands board?

2) in the final combat between a character and the dungeon lord/eagle king can he use spells, followers and weapons like swords/psionic blast/unicorn or absolutely no weapons/magic/followers allowed?

3) if a character land on the sentinel/portal of power spaces with exact movement can he try to defeat the sentinel/open the portal or he must have at least another movement point to go to the other side?

that's all for now, thanks in advance for your responses :)

1) Yes.

2) Yes a character may use Spells, Followers and Weapons, but a character must fight the battle or psychic combat himself.

3) Another movement point is necessary, although a character may do so on his following turn.

Ell.

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Lord Loren Soth said:

2) in the final combat between a character and the dungeon lord/eagle king can he use spells, followers and weapons like swords/psionic blast/unicorn or absolutely no weapons/magic/followers allowed?

I believe you can use your spells, followers and equipment as usual, however, there are certain cards that allow a follower or some other entity fight on your behalf instead of you entering combat as normal, these cards are not useable on the Eagle King or Dark Lord.

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While we're at it, I've got a few questions of my own:

 

1.)  Sacred Pool added extra Warhorses in the stable deck and lately its been a race to see who can be the first to get one and dominate.  If you have 2 Warhorses, can you add your craft to your strength twice?  If you are using the Monk (his ability adds his craft to his strength in battle) and you have a Warhorse, can you add your craft to your strength twice?

 

2.)  Soul Shatter is a spell that lets you take two lives of anyone you are about to engage in psychic combat.  Do you take the 2 lives AND have psychic combat?  Or does everything end once the spell takes the 2 lives?  Otherwise you could take 3 lives in one turn....

 

3.) I cast Time Steal on another player at the beginning of his turn...basically his turn ends and I immediately take another turn.  After I cast the spell, he cast Magic Shell.  Magic Shell basically states - Cast on yourself at the beginning of your turn...no spells will affect you until the start of your next turn.  My question is, can he interrupt my spell?  Does my spell just fizzle away or would he need to cast Magic Shell before I cast Time Steal for it to work?

 

Thanks for any help you can give me.  If anyone is bored while waiting for a new expansion, Talisman Island has a printable Dragonland Expansion on its resources page that has been alot of fun to try out.

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Alchemist said:

While we're at it, I've got a few questions of my own:

 

1.)  Sacred Pool added extra Warhorses in the stable deck and lately its been a race to see who can be the first to get one and dominate.  If you have 2 Warhorses, can you add your craft to your strength twice?  If you are using the Monk (his ability adds his craft to his strength in battle) and you have a Warhorse, can you add your craft to your strength twice?

Yes to both questions. Same bonuses from different sources can stack. This is clarified in the actual FAQ (see Psionic Blast Spell, Q2)

 

Alchemist said:

2.)  Soul Shatter is a spell that lets you take two lives of anyone you are about to engage in psychic combat.  Do you take the 2 lives AND have psychic combat?  Or does everything end once the spell takes the 2 lives?  Otherwise you could take 3 lives in one turn....

If I remember correctly, Soul Shatter works exactly like Finger of Death, but in psychic combat instead of battle. It is an "about to engage in..." Spell, so it takes effect before rolling the dice to determine combat result. If you're succesful in the psychic combat, you may take one more Life to your opponent.

 

Alchemist said:

3.) I cast Time Steal on another player at the beginning of his turn...basically his turn ends and I immediately take another turn.  After I cast the spell, he cast Magic Shell.  Magic Shell basically states - Cast on yourself at the beginning of your turn...no spells will affect you until the start of your next turn.  My question is, can he interrupt my spell?  Does my spell just fizzle away or would he need to cast Magic Shell before I cast Time Steal for it to work?

No, he can't cast Magic Shell if you declared you're casting Time Steal before. The only Spells that work as interruptions are Counterspell and Reflection.

This is the basic Talisman Spellcasting problem: who casts first solves first. If the first Spell puts the target in the condition not to do anything (Time Steal, immobility, Sleep, Lightning Bolt) he can't cast Spells either.

 

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Alchemist said:

1.)  Sacred Pool added extra Warhorses in the stable deck and lately its been a race to see who can be the first to get one and dominate.  If you have 2 Warhorses, can you add your craft to your strength twice?  If you are using the Monk (his ability adds his craft to his strength in battle) and you have a Warhorse, can you add your craft to your strength twice?

I want just to remember that the "craft value" that you add with the Warhorse is the one printed on the character's card without any modifier ; i think that this is a pretty misunderstood rule in general!

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The_Warlock said:

 

Alchemist said:

This is the basic Talisman Spellcasting problem: who casts first solves first. If the first Spell puts the target in the condition not to do anything (Time Steal, immobility, Sleep, Lightning Bolt) he can't cast Spells either.

 

 

It's not actually a problem. It's just logical, common sense and the rule!

Ell.

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talismanamsilat said:

The_Warlock said:

 

This is the basic Talisman Spellcasting problem: who casts first solves first. If the first Spell puts the target in the condition not to do anything (Time Steal, immobility, Sleep, Lightning Bolt) he can't cast Spells either.

 

It's not actually a problem. It's just logical, common sense and the rule!

Ell.

I never had a problem with this, but many people have and keep on asking questions about Spell timing. No matter how many times will it be explained, it will be asked again and again like the "pool card" question (if I land on it am I allowed to take 1 counter for me, etc...). In this sense it's a "basic" problem. I often say it's because players have played Magic the Gathering a lot and got used to stack Spells. I know I did, a long time ago.

This does not mean that the rule needs to be changed. However, it is in contrast with many player's game-DNA and who doesn't recognize himself in this dealing with Spells will ask a question.

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The_Warlock said:

 

 

 

Alchemist said:

3.) I cast Time Steal on another player at the beginning of his turn...basically his turn ends and I immediately take another turn.  After I cast the spell, he cast Magic Shell.  Magic Shell basically states - Cast on yourself at the beginning of your turn...no spells will affect you until the start of your next turn.  My question is, can he interrupt my spell?  Does my spell just fizzle away or would he need to cast Magic Shell before I cast Time Steal for it to work?

 

No, he can't cast Magic Shell if you declared you're casting Time Steal before. The only Spells that work as interruptions are Counterspell and Reflection.

This is the basic Talisman Spellcasting problem: who casts first solves first. If the first Spell puts the target in the condition not to do anything (Time Steal, immobility, Sleep, Lightning Bolt) he can't cast Spells either.

 

 

 

I disagree, as you've overlooked the governing principle, which is actually a problem with the rhetoric involved.

The beginning of a player's is an instance or point in time without actual measure. It belongs to that current player. No one can cast a spell in that player's turn and have occur before the player's turn to supercede the beginning of that player's turn. To do so, the other player would have to cast between turns, and the spell says at the beginning of another player's turn. Both spells go off in the same instance without measure, thereby, and the Magic Shell supersedes by its description. 

FAQs and official ruling of an exception might say different, but they'd be rhetorically and logically wrong by the exact wording on those cards.

The Magic Shell cast at the beginning of the current player's own turn takes precedence, as with other forms of "countering" spells.

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JCHendee said:

 

The_Warlock said:

 

 

 

Alchemist said:

3.) I cast Time Steal on another player at the beginning of his turn...basically his turn ends and I immediately take another turn.  After I cast the spell, he cast Magic Shell.  Magic Shell basically states - Cast on yourself at the beginning of your turn...no spells will affect you until the start of your next turn.  My question is, can he interrupt my spell?  Does my spell just fizzle away or would he need to cast Magic Shell before I cast Time Steal for it to work?

 

No, he can't cast Magic Shell if you declared you're casting Time Steal before. The only Spells that work as interruptions are Counterspell and Reflection.

This is the basic Talisman Spellcasting problem: who casts first solves first. If the first Spell puts the target in the condition not to do anything (Time Steal, immobility, Sleep, Lightning Bolt) he can't cast Spells either.

 

 

 

I disagree, as you've overlooked the governing principle, which is actually a problem with the rhetoric involved.

The beginning of a player's is an instance or point in time without actual measure. It belongs to that current player. No one can cast a spell in that player's turn and have occur before the player's turn to supercede the beginning of that player's turn. To do so, the other player would have to cast between turns, and the spell says at the beginning of another player's turn. Both spells go off in the same instance without measure, thereby, and the Magic Shell supersedes by its description. 

FAQs and official ruling of an exception might say different, but they'd be rhetorically and logically wrong by the exact wording on those cards.

The Magic Shell cast at the beginning of the current player's own turn takes precedence, as with other forms of "countering" spells.

 

 

Player A announces his turn has ended and play passes to player B.

Player C announces "Spellcasting" and casts Time Steal on player B.

Player B's turn ends immediately and player C takes an extra turn.

If player B had the Magic Shell, he would have had to announce "Spellcasting" before player C did!

First player to cast his Spell always takes priority. Obviously Counterspell or Reflection could have countered Time Steal.

I have to disagree with you JC and who says we are rhetorically and logically wrong by saying Spells work in this manner - that's only your opinion!

Ell.

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lost.prophet said:

Alchemist said:

 

1.)  Sacred Pool added extra Warhorses in the stable deck and lately its been a race to see who can be the first to get one and dominate.  If you have 2 Warhorses, can you add your craft to your strength twice?  If you are using the Monk (his ability adds his craft to his strength in battle) and you have a Warhorse, can you add your craft to your strength twice?

 

 

I want just to remember that the "craft value" that you add with the Warhorse is the one printed on the character's card without any modifier ; i think that this is a pretty misunderstood rule in general!

Wow....thanks for that comment.  I've never really thought of it that way.  We've definitely been playing that wrong.  The Warhorse isn't going to be as much of a game changer for us from now on.

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talismanamsilat said:

 Player A announces his turn has ended and play passes to player B.

Player C announces "Spellcasting" and casts Time Steal on player B.

Player B's turn ends immediately and player C takes an extra turn.

If player B had the Magic Shell, he would have had to announce "Spellcasting" before player C did!

First player to cast his Spell always takes priority. Obviously Counterspell or Reflection could have countered Time Steal.

I have to disagree with you JC and who says we are rhetorically and logically wrong by saying Spells work in this manner - that's only your opinion!

Ell.

 

 

Player B's turn does not end based on a vocalization from Player C outside of the game environment; it ends because of what happens with Character C inside the game environment. You've made and an assumption as well... in other words an opinion... but one that goes against actual logic expressed in rhetoric.

And the fact remains that it is another small glitch in the game that could be interpreted in multiple ways.  But interpreting by order of effects inside a game environment based choices/actions made outside of it is not the way other spell effects are resolved... nor the way some rulings (contradicting others) are setup in the FAQs.  Most good games determine order of cause and effect inside the game environment, not by who first shouts out "I'm casting a spell"  around the table.

Nonsense! That kind of approach is what led to the conundrum that prompted part of the original post. It is not an answer but a restating of the original conflict on the issue from one side of the conflict... and you did it from outside of the game itself.

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JCHendee said:

talismanamsilat said:

 Player A announces his turn has ended and play passes to player B.

Player C announces "Spellcasting" and casts Time Steal on player B.

Player B's turn ends immediately and player C takes an extra turn.

If player B had the Magic Shell, he would have had to announce "Spellcasting" before player C did!

First player to cast his Spell always takes priority. Obviously Counterspell or Reflection could have countered Time Steal.

I have to disagree with you JC and who says we are rhetorically and logically wrong by saying Spells work in this manner - that's only your opinion!

Ell.

 

 

Player B's turn does not end based on a vocalization from Player C outside of the game environment; it ends because of what happens with Character C inside the game environment. You've made and an assumption as well... in other words an opinion... but one that goes against actual logic expressed in rhetoric.

And the fact remains that it is another small glitch in the game that could be interpreted in multiple ways.  But interpreting by order of effects inside a game environment based choices/actions made outside of it is not the way other spell effects are resolved... nor the way some rulings (contradicting others) are setup in the FAQs.  Most good games determine order of cause and effect inside the game environment, not by who first shouts out "I'm casting a spell"  around the table.

Nonsense! That kind of approach is what led to the conundrum that prompted part of the original post. It is not an answer but a restating of the original conflict on the issue from one side of the conflict... and you did it from outside of the game itself.

Saying outloud "Spellcasting" is just to help alleviate the problem. It obviously is not a given rule but in fact a house rule.

The order in which Spells are dealt with in Talisman has always been first in first out, ever since the GW days period. This is how Spells should be played in the game. If players want to house rule it another way then so be it!

The Talisman Tournament will of course use the normal rules for Spellcasting;-)

Ell.

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Archdruid said:

 

And very impressive your character will look too, riding into battle with each foot stood on a different horse, towering above your terrified opponents!

sorpresa.gif

 

 

haha very funnylengua.gif

We can also say that the other warhorses are just following the leader warhorse, and adds their power(value) to the character's strength.

P: i think that he not enough foots to control 4 warhorses at the same timegui%C3%B1o.gif

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