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RedSimon2

When the day breaks...

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I am quite sure we will see a third expansion in the future that covers roughly the events of the 4th season of BSG.

What do you think will be it's name?

My answers would be either "Revelations" or of course "Daybreak" (both being the names of Episodes like "Pegasus" and "Exodus", and both short and memorable enough).

Feel free to also ramble about possible content of the expansion.

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It's hard to say.  I was surprised that the last expansion was called Exodus, since the plot of the episode "Exodus" was covered by the Pegasus expansion. 

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An idea I had recently is that it could include armed Raptors plastic ships

Another would be a side board with a the cylon space station for the final phase of the game (rescuing hera of course), like the New Caprica board.

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If they call the next one Revelations, non fans might wonder why they keep naming expansions after books of the Bible.  Maybe expansion number four will be called 2nd Chronicles or Song of Solomon.  If they want a catchy title that attracts new fans, and they want to stick with episode titles, maybe Blood on the Scales?  Or Six of One, which is at least intriguing? 

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 Heh heh.  Never thought much about that.  For what it's worth, the Bible book is called "Revelation", without the "s," so it wouldn't be the exact same name, but it's a fair point.

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 Honestly I'd like to see more resource adding cards. It really seems like the humans get screwed sometimes on things like food (not all the time, but sometimes). Also, more Cylon leaders/agenda deck cards would be nice :).

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THEY have to release an expansion.. I've kinda... just discovered bsg and I'm soooooo in love with this game. (always play cylon leader according to the exodus (whatever) expansion last page thingy.. where it states how you do when you want to play with a cylon leader with the latest expansion. However. I do hope they dont add a sh*tty thing like new caprica cos that sucked.. bone hard.. like, it was SOO BAD... better if they just keep adding stuff to the real game which include being on bsg etc :) Prehaps add more funny stuff for the cylons :) and making it EVEN HARDER for the humans to survive :) more destination cards, and MAAANY MORE crisis cards, already gone throught them all xD and I want MORE :) more more more :) and prehaps 6 more of each deck? 4 more characters and 2 more female cylon leaders :) (females plz, already 3:1 ratio male to female... and the females kinda wanna play females so prehaps make it abit more fun for our female players too by giving them 2 more to pick from cos they never wanna play male cylon leaders)

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Regardsless of similarities between books of the bible and titles of episodes, I would go with "Revelations".  However, I fail to come up with a title of my own to add.  :(

 

What I would really like to see is some game mechanic on the Final Five.  At the same time, the Exodus expansion covered that in parts.

I'm beginning to think about this with marketing in mind.  And I'm failing to see what FFG could possibly add that would move even non-fans of the TV series to buy yet another expansion.  Effectively, I think it would boil down to what FFG can add without stumbling over their own feet.  And I kind of doubt FFG will come up with enough to warrant a full-sized expansion for roughly $30 without reducing sale numbers on the older expansions.

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just 2 of 7 people in my group have seen that crappy(sorry, my view, let it stand for me) serie.. But the Board game is insane!!! :D <3 LOVE IT!! :D Just add more stuff, like cards :) we already own 2 set of everything, the main game and the expansions :) reason? To pile em all up so we dont need to shuffle the decks so often :)

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"Daybreak" is alright but lacks much marketing oomph.  "Revelations" makes some sense and seems appropriately dramatic.  "Blood on the Scales" seems very much like a game name for something like "Tide of Iron" but I'm not sure for this particular game series; I could be wrong.  Going back to season 3 for names, I found "Maelstrom" (unlikely, but a single one word dramatic image), "Salvation" (from a "Measure of Salvation") also unlikely, and "The Passage" which sort of fits but is pretty limp.  So, hard to say.  I wonder if they'll bother with the last one - I mean, it *should* go to Earth, but what will happen otherwise?  A mutiny?  A side trip to the hub?  Yet an additional way into which some humans will turn on the humans (mutiny) and some cylons join the humans in an alliance?

One thing for sure: if the game comes out, the title won't be "Taking a Break From All Your Worries." 

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The Problem:

FFG apparently wants each expansion to play well with any combination of previous releases, a problem that is only compounded as you add more.  Exodus needed to work whether you want to play:

  • Core + Exodus  (or)
  • Core + Pegasus + Exodus

To maintain "full" compatibility with "Core + Exodus", Exodus included new Skill Cards for everything except Treachery; new characters for every category except Cylon Leaders; and struggled for balance whether or not the game-warping Pegasus mechanics were in play.  I think (though I cannot be sure) that FFG underprioritized "Exodus + Pegasus" testing, despite my suspicions that most players running Exodus are running it with Pegasus.  This is probably why the shift of "Broadcast Location" to a human-friendly card, among other things, appeared to slip through the cracks.

A third expansion (we'll call it "Revelations") would be an even bigger headache, and would almost certainly cause even more problems.  Assuming FFG's approach hasn't changed, it would have to play well, and be tested against, no less than four possible permutations of the game:

  • Core + Revelations
  • Core + Pegasus + Revelations
  • Core + Exodus + Revelations
  • Core + Pegasus + Exodus + Revelations

... and this doesn't even account for the permutations contained within Exodus itself, with its three optional modules.  Is there a CAG or isn't there?  Cylon Leaders or the Sympathizer Card?  Are we flying with Pegasus, or not?  Are we heading to Kobol, New Caprica, the Ionian Nebula or, presumably, Earth?

Possible Solution 1:

Divide Revelations into smaller, targeted expansions, each one devoted to "knitting together" a different combination of the Core game and the currently published expansions, while adding new materials as well:

  • Revelations "Big Box"  -- everything that would play well with any combination of expansions: new cards, new characters, "self-contained" modules (like "Conflicted Loyalties" in Exodus), etc.  Your basic expansion, in other words.
  • Revelations: Pegasus Addendum -- the much-needed return to Pegasus, with new Treachery and Agenda cards (ones that increase, rather than decrease, the paranoia... duh).  Costs could be mitigated by treating this like an LCG-style "Chapter Pack", containing new cards and nothing else.  I think this would be especially popular: ever since the release of Exodus, I think FFG has underestimated how much people want to love Cylon Leaders and Treachery, and how with a bit more focus they could really take off.
  • Revelations: Exodus Addendum -- though I have comparatively little experience with Exodus, this may not be as necessary as the Pegasus redux: Cards that interact with Exodus mechanics, of course, including allies/trauma tokens/CFB/CAG... maybe a new twist on the Final Five.  Bottom line, this too could be an LCG-style Chapter Pack with a focus on new cards.

This combination would both satisfy the apparent need for all expansions to play with the core set on their own, without feeling like the "game-as-a-whole" was ignored (as it felt, at least to me, with Exodus' abandonment of Treachery and the oh-so-cool Cylon Leaders).  From a business standpoint, the "Big Box" could sell at the same cost as each other expansion, while the Addendum chapter packs could sell at $15 a pop, giving FFG better control over print runs and supply.  I for one would not consider this a "money grab," but as a justifiable extra cost for an additional product:  the "knitting together" of expansions is separate from the expansions themselves:  I'd drop $15 right now for some new Treachery cards, Cylon Agendas, and additional Crisis/Skill/Destination/Quorum cards that interact with them.

Possible Solution 2:

 

Drop the silly idea that each expansion needs to ignore all the previous expansions.  I put this second, because it strikes me as obvious, which means there's probably an obvious reason why they didn't do it already.  I just don't understand it.  What percentage of players bought Exodus and not Pegasus?  And, of those, how many would have been intrigued by the extra Treachery cards, Cylon Leader and alternate Agenda cards, coupled with a "please remove these cards if you are not playing with the Pegasus expansion" note in the rulebook?  Perhaps enough to go purchase Pegasus?

 

 

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Some very nice points, Eunomaniac. You do a good job of laying out just how much encumbrance a third expansion brings with it if it wants to adhere to FFG's desire for self-contained modular expansions while still remaining balanced against any and all possible combinations of components. I tend to agree that solution #2 makes the most sense to me. I don't have the numbers but it seems unlikely to me that a large number of players who bypassed Pegasus and Exodus would jump in with Revelations, and it seems unlikelier still that the few players who do so would be bothered terribly by a few components in the box that they didn't know how to use. 

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Eunomiac,

Yup, I think you summed things up pretty nicely.

It's worth noting that FFG do publish expansions that contain components for earlier expansions - the most recent Arkham horror expansion (Miskatonic Horror) is a 'big-box' expansion (same size box as the basic game) but is really a collection of additional components for the base game plus all the earlier supplements.

Clearly, any 'Revelations' expansion has to work with the core game, but there's no real reason why there can't be components that you only need if you have one of the earlier supplements. Moreover, there is no reason why some of the supplement rules couldn't be repeated (I think FFG introduced 'treachery' into Descent in the first supplement, then repeated the 'treachery' rules in the second supplement): given that there is (to me) an obvious requirement for 'Revelations' to include 3 Cylon Leader characters, I see no reason the rules for Cylon Leaders couldn't be repeated in the 'Revelations' rule book, along with the three 'missing' Cylon Leaders and a pack of all new treachery cards.

All the various posts that there have been where we've all said what we want in the next supplement, while tending to be in some cases sensible, in others somewhat hopeful, are probably the correct starting point; the decision as to whether to go for a single 'big box' (same size box as the core game plus the two current supplements) 'Revelations', or to produce one or more 'boosters' to the existing supplements,would likely fall out of the decision as to what to include (based largely on cost/practicalities of production, and expected sales, I suspect, though hopefully with some regard to the wishes expressed in these forums).

Personnally, I would prefer to see a fourth bigbox 'Revelations' supplement - somehow, it seems right that the series ends with one more full sized product, rather than two (or more) smaller items (but that's a totally illogical, non-commercial and probably irrational view).

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Like other players said, Miskatonic Horror for Arkham Horror and also Shards of the Throne for Twilight Imperium 3rd edition have content that can only be used with other expansions.

Because of this it is quite possible that FFG will make a third BSG expansion with similar content. I hope so.

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 Thanks for clearing that up; I'm not familiar with many of FFG's games (other than the GoT LCG, which is better than Magic: the Gathering in every single way except the mind-numbing way it causes your brain to shut down with all the options on the table).

But doesn't this beg the question*, "why didn't they include new Treachery cards and/or Agenda cards with Exodus?", given (a) the simplicity of doing both, (b) the broken symmetry of having new cards for five-of-six skill categories, and © the rampant complaints (about which no sane man or woman could disagree, I maintain) regarding the existing Agenda cards? 

**** I'd love a developer diary.  I also wish there was more interest in brainstorming objectives for a set of community-made Agendas, but then again, I also wish I were the king of Siam and wore a shiny hat, so I'm used to not getting what I wish for ;)

* No, philosophy majors, you are not allowed to declare that I am using this phrase incorrectly just because you got to it first.  Parse it out, it makes sense :P

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Eunomaniac, that was an impressive insight.  I believe you addressed all the issues I had swirling around in my head.  And I liked the format in which you did it; very neat and organized.  Bravo!

 

Personally, I was introduced to the board game before the TV series and absolutely loved the game.  (I had played other coop-style games like Shadows over Camelot, Fury of Dracula or its ealier counterpart Scotland Yard, and Pandemic, but felt like BSG was the first coop-style game that really did what i expected it to do.  The combination of paranoia for betrayal and cooperation to achieve your goal really impressed me.  In no time did BSG make it to the top of my "Most Favorite Games Ever" list.

When the Pegasus expansion was announced, I followed FFG's press releases and previews religiously.  I couldn't wait for the expansion.  And once it came out, I got my friends together and we played it.  I loved the new aspects of the game but disliked the way the New Caprica board didn't fit in with the rest of the game.  It was more like a game within a game, like a part that didn't quite belong.  (Very much like the Grail Quest in Shadows over Camelot.)  I loved the Pegasus game board and the potential I saw in the Cylon leaders.  What I didn't like about the Cylon leaders I now know to be largely because of the group I played with.  They had all seen the old and/or new TV series and impersonated their Cylon Leaders as if they were anti-human...regardless of their Cylon Agenda Cards.  Over time I enjoyed playing the base game more on its own than with Pegasus.

When Exodus was announced, I was again very much looking forward to its release.  I can honestly say I felt less enthused about Exodus than I did about Pegasus...mostly because I felt like Pegasus proved to be far less than I had anticipated.  I still bought Exodus the moment it came out and I'm very happy I did.  I have since managed to incorporate parts of the Pegasus expansion into our usual Core + Exodus set up.

Maybe it is because I was not so impressed with Pegasus that I find myself only mediocrely looking forward to yet another expansion.  I believe the best would be what Eunomaniac described, although out of the various scenarios I would prefer the "big box" option.  However, I still have faith that FFG will wing it again and maybe even find a cool and working alternative to anything we mused about so far.

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Well, looks like my ideas were already summed up by other people. Nice to know we all think alike. :-)

I was going to suggest an expansion that added cards/characters for Core, Pegasus, and Exodus. I was also thinking that the Cylon Colony ship should be the new Destination (I mean, Earth is nice and all, but this is a game, not the series) with something that puts a little more pressure on the Cylons, like giving them a dial or something...

If not that, then maybe making POD add ons for the three sets and a stand alone game for the 4th season.

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Since I hate making a suggestion without offering anything, I sat down and jotted some rough notes of what I would do if I were spearheading a new expansion. Depending on the number of cards I'd probably just do this as a flat expansion because as I was thinking about it, I couldn't think of a good reason to add certain types of cards. I have no idea where the line is drawn between expansion and POD, but POD might be the way to go instead of a big box expansion.

Obviously this is in no way official, and this was just a brainstorm, so I won't be hurt if people hate it.

Characters:
Core set - For balance, I would either add one character for each type, or 1-3 Support characters. Executions would not be included in any abilities.
Pegasus Set - Here I would add the three remaining Cylon Leaders (D'Anna, Simon, and Aaron). I know Exodus didn't include any because then you would have cards you couldn't use unless you bought Pegasus, so if this were a flat expansion, then I would just make these POD.
Exodus Set - I havent used Exodus yet, but If I were to add characters, executions could be worked in.

Ideal Scenario: 1-3 Support (compatible with C, P, and E), 1 Military/1 Political/1 Pilot (compatible with P and E), 3 Cylon Leaders. 7-10 cards.

Skills:
Adding a new skill set would require new characters to use it (adding "First Aid" as a set of skills would either need new Support characters or an all new branch to choose from, like Medical characters) or perhaps a new way to draw cards (First Aid skill set with a new Sickbay overlay that allows players to draw Medical cards while they remain there). This would also require a slew of new Crisis Cards requiring that new skill, unless the new skill was always considered positive. Otherwise, I would just add new Movement and Reckless cards.

Ideal Scenario: A First Aid deck with half as many cards as a regular deck. You could only draw from Sickbay (so either one Skill card for your set, or one First Aid card). Cards are valued 1-3 and counted positive for everything. Probably wouldn't break the game. Possible effects could be a card that cancels an execution by moving you to Sickbay and costing you a turn, or activating a location twice.

Agenda/Loyalty Cards:
I haven't played with Cylon Leaders yet, so I don't know if more cards are needed here. I also can't think of anything else for more loyalty cards (one that reduces another resource?).

Cards for Exodus:
I haven't used anything from Exodus, so I don't know if it needs more cards. Perhaps new NPCs for Ionian Nebula? New personal goals, maybe for New Caprica?

Crisis/Super Crisis/Destinations:
Each expansion added new cards, so cards added should focus on season(s) not covered in the other expansions. Of course anything including executions would rule out being compatible with the Core game.

Colony Ship:
Each expansion added a new final destination to the game. The idea I had for this expansion was to add a board, the Cylon Colony Ship, but flip it so the Cylons are now trying to stop the Human threat. Galactica (and Pegasus) would still be in play and the colony ship would be treated like a "Cylon Galactica" with locations that you have to move through in a specific order. There would be a new colony crisis deck (less cards than the standard crisis deck). There would also be a Hera chit that starts at the far end of the colony and be moved by crisis cards and maybe even a location on the colony. The Human objective would be to get Hera to Galactica and then jump the ship (presumably to Earth) while the Cylons would still have to reduce a resource to zero, destroy Galactica, or a successful centurion boarding attempt. You're looking at 1-3 Cylons so to help them out and to keep the Humans from just storming the colony ship, you still have a cylon fleet attacking Galactica and Centurion chits/figs on the colony ship that operate like raiders (scripted AI) blocking movement, attacking with a die roll, and possibly boarding Galactica.

The new crisis deck would be balanced so that neither side feels overwhelmed by the amount of stuff on the board (less cards activating Cylon figures and skill checks specific to infiltrating the colony).

Adding a board that weakly mimics a combat game might not be what people want (I think that was a complaint about New Caprica), but I think it represents the last season well and it only comes to play at the end game.

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Alternatively, you could go one of two other options:

1) Maybe an expansion that uses something from the game but plays differently. For example, using the skill cards and characters, but using an all new board. Game may still use the Liar's Game mechanic, or something else entirely.

2) Make an all new stand alone game. Maybe not a full blown one, but maybe something Silver Line quality. Rules/Gameplay could be similar to original game, but not an add on.
 

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Well, there you go. :-)

I also saw what looked like a Clue-type expansion that used the NPCs from Ionian Nebula in a different fashion, which was another idea I mentioned. Seeing that any sort of expansion we make directly related to BSG removes an option for FFG to play with*, has anyone made a game with similar mechanics to BSG but one that stands on its own? Spit-balling, one side plays Humans, one Cylon, cards mimic skill cards in a way...

 

 

* there's no way FFG is going to make an expansion now where you invade the Colony Ship and rescue Hera because 1) it can be directly compared to every homebrewed game already doing that and 2) they're going to do whatever they can to avoid someone coming out and saying FFG stole their idea.

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