A few questions

[Ratatoskr 34]

Serazu said:

1. He Calls it Thinking:

There's nothing preventing me from using it to cancel an Agenda's, such as Siege's, response. Right? Unless, now that I think of it,  the fact that Agendas are not in play means that nothing can affect them.

The FAQ's preventing you (page 11):

(4.11) Agenda Cards
Agenda cards are not considered to be in play.
Further, the effects of an Agenda card cannot
be canceled.

Serazu said:

2. Red Vengeance:

The claim on which plot is the one that should be taken into account when RV is used, the attacker's one or the RV player's one? I tend to think that the "as the defender" wording dictates that the RV player's plot claim is the important one. Right?

Why? All Red Vengeance does is letting the losing defender choose another player to suffer the claim effects of the challenge. The Claim value is decided by the number on the attacker's plot card. Why would that change?

Serazu said:

3. Orphan of the Greenblood:

Can I use its ability to remove icons from a character that has already lost its icons or had none in the first plase? I do not think so. Am I right?

Sorry, wrong again

In order to initiate an effect, you must meet the play restrictions (none here), pay the full costs (in this case, discarding the Orphan) and choose the targets. The card tells you to choose 1 character. It doesn't say "1 character with at least 1 icon" or anything similar. Nothing is preventing you from choosing a character without any icons.

[Serazu 50]

Ah, ok. Concerning RV, the above answer obviously has logic in a melee game. A attacks B, B responds with RV and picks C to pay the price. In a joust game it's the exact same thing I take it then, where C equals A, so the attacker's claim is the important one here. Got it. Thank you.

[Serazu 50]

1. I am first player, Threat from the North is revealed and an opponent has a STR 3 character in play. His STR is now 2. I reveal KL Assassin out of the Shadows and use his Response against that character. Which of the two takes precedence, the Threat's passive ability, the Assassin's Response or, as first player, do I get to choose?

2. Would the answer to the above differ if, in place of the Assassin, Flame-Kissed was attached on that character?

[Ratatoskr 34]

Serazu said:

1. I am first player, Threat from the North is revealed and an opponent has a STR 3 character in play. His STR is now 2. I reveal KL Assassin out of the Shadows and use his Response against that character. Which of the two takes precedence, the Threat's passive ability, the Assassin's Response or, as first player, do I get to choose?

2. Would the answer to the above differ if, in place of the Assassin, Flame-Kissed was attached on that character?

1) The FP decides if the card is killed or discarded.

2) No.

[ktom 598]

1) Specifically, "killed at 0" and "discarded at 0" are conflicting passive effects. So the First Player decides the order (and the first one applied controls).

2) Out of curiosity, is there a particular reason you would think "killed at 0" on an attachment would be somehow different from "killed at 0" on a character?

[Serazu 50]

In the Flame-Kissed I was certain it was a passive effect. In the Assassin's case, I didn't know how to name it. Passive most probably, though the "Response" got me confused.

As always, thanks to both of you. And to all those willing to solve any questions I may have.

[ktom 598]

I suppose technically, it is a lasting effect. But the "if X happens, you must do Y" format of that lasting effect means it resolves passively. Confusing, but there it is.

[Serazu 50]

A matter came up yesterday:

During the Challenges phase, I used Rhaenys's Hill to steal the characters in my opponent's dead pile. Guard at Riverrun was among them. Both cards have a "at the end of the phase" effect. The matter that came up was which "at the end" should be resolved first. My opponent was first player, so we decided that it was up to him to choose. Correct?

[Ratatoskr 34]

Serazu said:

 

A matter came up yesterday:

During the Challenges phase, I used Rhaenys's Hill to steal the characters in my opponent's dead pile. Guard at Riverrun was among them. Both cards have a "at the end of the phase" effect. The matter that came up was which "at the end" should be resolved first. My opponent was first player, so we decided that it was up to him to choose. Correct?

 

 

Sorry, no. Both "end of the phase" effects resolve as ordinary passive effects in step 4 of the "End of the phase" Framework Action Window. There's no reason why they couldn't both resolve, is there? It's no different from both Golden Tooth Mines and Bay of Ice resolving in the same Framework Action Window. No Responses can be triggered during an "End of the Phase" FAW, but Passives resolve just like in any othe FAW.

EDIT: Just reread your question. Technically you're right, the FP decides in which order the effects resolve. But the order doesn't matter; both effects will resolve.

[Serazu 50]

The problem here is if I get to draw a card -via the Guard's ability (assuming I haven't lost a MIL challenge - which I haven't)- or he gets back to my opponent's dead pile before I get the chance to draw. Shouldn't it be up to the first player to decide?

[Ratatoskr 34]

Serazu said:

The problem here is if I get to draw a card -via the Guard's ability (assuming I haven't lost a MIL challenge - which I haven't)- or he gets back to my opponent's dead pile before I get the chance to draw. Shouldn't it be up to the first player to decide?

This is standard Moribund stuff.

Both effects resolve in step 4 (passives) of the End of the Phase FAW.

If Guard at Riverrun resolves first, and Rhaenys' Hill resolves second, you draw a card and then the characters from your opponent's Dead Pile enter a Moribund:Dead Pile state. You skip step 5 (responses) of the FAW because it's the Ende of the Phase. In step 6, the moribund cards leave play.

If Rhaenys' Hill resolves first, and Guard at Riverrun resolves second, the characters from your opponent's Dead Pile enter a Moribund:Dead Pile state and then you draw a card for the Guard while he is moribund. You skip step 5 (responses) of the FAW because it's the Ende of the Phase. In step 6, the moribund cards leave play.

[Serazu 50]

So, in either case, I get to draw, according to what you mention. Correct?

[Ratatoskr 34]

Serazu said:

So, in either case, I get to draw, according to what you mention. Correct?

Yes.

[Serazu 50]

Three new questions:

Street Waif

1. The opponent gets to choose and, upon choosing, the cards are returned to the discard pile in the exact order (minus the card chosen) they had prior to the choosing. Correct?

Pyromancer's Cache

2. I attach it to a location of mine. Later, that location changes control. Does it stay on the location or is it discarded?

3. Does the location I knelt and attached the Cache to:

i. stay knelt indefinitely whether the Cache is somehow removed from it later or not

ii. stay knelt as long as the Cache is attached on it

iii. stand in the standing phase even with the Cache attached.

Which one?

[Ratatoskr 34]

Serazu said:

Three new questions:

Street Waif

1. The opponent gets to choose and, upon choosing, the cards are returned to the discard pile in the exact order (minus the card chosen) they had prior to the choosing. Correct?

Technically, the other cards never leave the discard pile. Of course, your opponent is not allowed to change the order of your discard pile. He just gets to choose one card to give to you.

Serazu said:

Pyromancer's Cache

2. I attach it to a location of mine. Later, that location changes control. Does it stay on the location or is it discarded?

It gets discarded, because the requirement "Attach to a location you control" is no longer met.

Serazu said:

3. Does the location I knelt and attached the Cache to:

i. stay knelt indefinitely whether the Cache is somehow removed from it later or not

ii. stay knelt as long as the Cache is attached on it

iii. stand in the standing phase even with the Cache attached.

Which one?

It's iii. The location is knelt when the Cache is attached to it, but it will stand in the Standing Phase normally.

[Serazu 50]

Thanks, mr. squirrel!

[Serazu 50]

Player A Targ, player B GJ:

Player A plays Balerion and uses his Response. Player B responds with ODG Alannys. Player A responds with Bloodrider's ability. Balerion's Response may now take effect.

Will Bloodrider kneel?

[ktom 598]

Is Bloodrider a non-Dragon character or location in play when Balerion's ability resolves?

[Serazu 50]

So, he kneels. And what happens if Valar is revealed, an opponent discards a duplicate to save one of his characters and I put Bloodrider into play to cancel the save effect? Does the Bloodrider survive Valar?

[radiskull 39]

Yes, he does.  Valar killed all characters in play when it was revealed, and Bloodrider entered play subsequent to that.

[Khudzlin 734]

radiskull said:

Yes, he does.  Valar killed all characters in play when it was revealed, and Bloodrider entered play subsequent to that.

Actually, Bloodrider enters play during step 2 (during substep 2 of the duplicate's effect), before Valar resolves in step 3, so he dies, I think.

[radiskull 39]

Khudzlin said:

radiskull said:

 

Yes, he does.  Valar killed all characters in play when it was revealed, and Bloodrider entered play subsequent to that.

 

 

Actually, Bloodrider enters play during step 2 (during substep 2 of the duplicate's effect), before Valar resolves in step 3, so he dies, I think.

Yep, you're right - I was looking over the timing charts just now, and I was wrong earlier.

[Serazu 50]

Player A reveals a Plot with claim 1. Player B reveals the Power of Blood Plot. Player A wins his MIL challenge. Can Player B pick one of his nobles to satisfy the claim and, since they cannot be killed anyway, lose no characters at all?

[alpha5099 71]

Serazu said:

Player A reveals a Plot with claim 1. Player B reveals the Power of Blood Plot. Player A wins his MIL challenge. Can Player B pick one of his nobles to satisfy the claim and, since they cannot be killed anyway, lose no characters at all?

"A character that cannot be killed/saved/etc. may not be chosen for that effect."

[ktom 598]

radiskull said:

Khudzlin said:

 

radiskull said:

 

Yes, he does.  Valar killed all characters in play when it was revealed, and Bloodrider entered play subsequent to that.

 

Actually, Bloodrider enters play during step 2 (during substep 2 of the duplicate's effect), before Valar resolves in step 3, so he dies, I think.

 

 

Yep, you're right - I was looking over the timing charts just now, and I was wrong earlier.

The mistake is understandable because I think people have used the "he wasn't in play when Valar was initiated, so he survives its resolution" reasoning to justify not killing PotSun-Darkstar when using him to pay the cost of Maester of the Sun's save effect during a Valar. It wouldn't shock me if I said that without thinking it through, too. But looking at it now, Darkstar should die to Valar if you use him in the Maester of the Sun combo during an untargeted kill effect like Valar.