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boersma8

Tank Fight at Prohorovka

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I'm playing this scenario tomorrow with a friend. He played it once before with Latro. From what I heard about it, it was well-balanced.

I'll write a short AAR when we're doing playing.

Has anyone else played this scenario? If so, what were your impressions? 

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Played it a couple times, both sides.  It's a good scenario.  Replayability comes from the variable Soviet reinforcement rolls.  Really  makes a difference whether you get a lone T-34/76 or get a pair of them along with an SU-122!  The AT-guns didn't last long in our matchups and in each of the contests, it came down to the end. 

Of the scenarios in FotB, this one was one of the better ones, IMHO.

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Kingtiger said:

Has anyone else played this scenario? If so, what were your impressions?

I liked it, it came down to the last round. Advise your Russian field commander that German tanks have greater range and that hiding during set-up is not retreating. Make those German big cats come to you. happy.gif

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We were also curios on this scenario.

It was good one, but my opponent (playing for Russians) had an extraordinary luck and received during 3 rounds 9 T34s as reinforcements. Initially I tried to win by penetrating my tanks through his line (established near a river), but his tough resistance and abundant reinforcements were factors against it. Finally it turned out to a tank fight and although our loses were almost equal (cca 8 tanks on each side), my lost Tigers counted higher than Soviet tanks, and he thus won.

I would appreciate in this scenario better determined number of Russian reinforcements, not ranging from 3 to 9 tanks, but lets say from 4 to 6.

By the way, has anyone tried out the last scenario - Armored maelstrom?

It seems to me really big, with infantery and tanks and probably taking a lot of time to complete. Is it well balanced?

 

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Artemis said:

By the way, has anyone tried out the last scenario - Armored maelstrom?

It seems to me really big, with infantery and tanks and probably taking a lot of time to complete. Is it well balanced?

 

 

I have the exact same question. I fear that the russians will have a very hard time in Armored maelstrom, but maybe I'm mistaken. Have not played it.

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Artemis said:

By the way, has anyone tried out the last scenario - Armored maelstrom?

I am currently in Round 9 of Armored Maelstrom. So far, the Germans have managed to capture one of the victory objectives. It will come down to the last round, I think.

The Russians have suffered very heavy losses, but so for they have also managed to slow the Germans down and block the victory objective hexes.

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So we finished this scenario. Overall I feel it's balanced (or at the least not obviously unbalanced...), although I won as the Germans 9-2. However, this was more due to the fact that I'm a much more expereinecd TOI player than my opponent is and he therefore made quite a lot of tactical errors than that the scenario is unbalanced in favor of the Germans. He continuously engaged my tanks at long range (typically 8 hexes), which was still normal range for my panzer IVs and Tigers. Also he consistently spent all his command, or most of it at least, on initiative even when this wasn't necessary at all and finally he put far too many units on op-fire, even in the status phase, thereby severely hampering his possibilities to counter my moves.I absolutely felt I could have put up a stiffer fight as the Russians.

Some other observations:

I didn't really have the feeling i was fighting the battle of Prohorovka, because from what I've read about the battle of Kursk, the terrain was predominantly "clear" with interspersed trees and hills here and there. In this map lay-out, it's not "here and there", but rather allo over the place, so in short I felt there was too much cover available.

Secondly, I didn't have the feeling to be playing the largets tank battle in history. Many previously released scenarios contain somewhere between 8 and 12 Shermans and the battles portrayed in those scenarios were but a fraction of the size of Prohorovka. Obviously I understand that a single tank may represent different numbers of tanks in these cases, but I still missed the feeling of fighting a MAJOR tank engagement. I also have to admit that at the smae time this is one of the strengths of the scenario as written: it's very fast playing. We actually managed to finish it in one session, which is something we usually don't manage to do with TOI. Nevertheless, an enlarged version of the scenario in a future scenario book (like the memoir 44 "Overlord"or "breakthrough" scenarios), might be a nice addition to the game.

I like the Russian reinforcements mechanism. Of course from time to time you may get some extreme results, but in most cases it will make the scenario replayable.

BTW, Do the German reinforcements have to be deployed in the division 1 deployment zone??? I'd say no because the "R's"are everywhere, but the fact that both German reinforcements are labeled "Division 1" caused some confusion.

Also, can a unit end its movement in a river hex in this scenario?

Finally a las question: Bill, did you play this scenario with the houserule of non-turreted vehicles( so the SU 122s, in this case)  not being able to fire and move?

 

 

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no i did not use the non turreted house rule. the Terrain around Kursk is actually more diverse than some accounts give. Didier Lodieu's book on 3rd Panzer Korps at Kursk was very helpful on this as was M.K. Barbier's book on Kursk.

BJaffe01

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BJaffe01 said:

no i did not use the non turreted house rule. the Terrain around Kursk is actually more diverse than some accounts give. Didier Lodieu's book on 3rd Panzer Korps at Kursk was very helpful on this as was M.K. Barbier's book on Kursk.

BJaffe01

OK. And how about the reinforcements and ending movement in river hexes?

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Replayed this scenario today against another, much more skilled opponent (Our well-known friend Latro as he is known on these boards). This time I played the Russians. What gave me a very, very hard time is that he postioned all of his Tigers (first two, later on 3) on the hill hexes near the German deployment zone. This gives them a range of 9, so long range of 18, which basically covers the entire board. This makes any movement for the Russians very, very hazardous (He often put one or two of them into op-fire preventing me from moving my tanks into normal range, that is without getting shot at). Eventually I lost big time, also because he continuously rolled one shot one kill rolls. The fact that I rolled somewhat below average didn't help either. Interestingly, I even got the maximum number of reinforcements: one SU 122 and a T34 on turn 2, and the other two times 3 T34's.

I did make a few (minor) tactical mistakes and I also should have set up slightly differently.As I mentioned as well; against someone who rolls that well, you'll always lose, no matter what. However, the one thing that really bugged us was that when the Germans score the first kill, they can theoretically just retreat and have the Russians come after them! Then with all German tanks in op-fire on the hill and around it, it'll be a meat-grinder! (Well, steel grinder, haha!). We felt better victory conditions to avoid such a German strategy would be to force them to drive at least one tank off the board to win or perhaps solely granting them points for exiting units whereas the Russians keep the same way to score points. You may have to allow the Germans two more turns or so to accomplish this then. The above startegy just feels extremely gamey and is probably not something the designers intended. FYI, we didn't play that way: the Germans pushed on slowly, but surely.

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