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Ghengisgarber

HINTS ON TACTICS

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I read that some of you are having a hard time with tigers. I have found a way that works. My group uses the tank charts published on the TOI site, along with the movement suggested changes. First, a sherman should shoot and scoot, or scoot and shoot. Use moving fire on the flank of the tiger (reroll one miss for the flank shot and one for the turret stabilization of the sherman) Get in close so that a 4,5 or 6 hits. Hit it again on the other flank, and the rear if possible where you get two rerolls. The last game I played I took out 3 tigers with 6 shermans. I lost 1 sherman and had two lightly damaged.

If the scenario gives you 2 mortars, double them up on one base. 8 rounds to suppress is pretty awesome.

Suppress not kill. If you suppress a unit, it usually cannot shoot back. You only need 1 suppression to silence a unit as opposed to 4 kills. If you fire to suppress again and are successful, the unit is disrupted. The third time it is routed and gone.

Another tactic is to suppress and then assault. A pinned or disrupted unit does not fight well.

Flamethrowers are great. The reinforcement decks give you these if the scenario does not. A squad base with 1 elite, 2 regs and an officer with flamethrower speciality is awesome. Save it for when you really really need to take an objective, or an enemy squad is really irratating you

Would appreciate comments

John

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I'm not quite sure what you're referring to below with the Tiger but there's no facings in ToI so what you're describing doesn't apply to a standard game.  If you want to kill german tanks it's all about concentrated fire, especially against the tiger plan to lose 1 tank per turn to it until you kill the tiger. I'm sure changing the rules of the game can certainly be called a tactic but not one hang out there for general assistance.

The rest are fairly straight forward though I would extend the bit about flame squads to any specialty squad.  That's where I usually put my officers since that 1 additional move can really be useful for leading a charge or closing for the kill after your other units have acted.

I've been compiling a strategy and tactics document I'll post up later today.

Ghengisgarber said:

I read that some of you are having a hard time with tigers. I have found a way that works. My group uses the tank charts published on the TOI site, along with the movement suggested changes. First, a sherman should shoot and scoot, or scoot and shoot. Use moving fire on the flank of the tiger (reroll one miss for the flank shot and one for the turret stabilization of the sherman) Get in close so that a 4,5 or 6 hits. Hit it again on the other flank, and the rear if possible where you get two rerolls. The last game I played I took out 3 tigers with 6 shermans. I lost 1 sherman and had two lightly damaged.

If the scenario gives you 2 mortars, double them up on one base. 8 rounds to suppress is pretty awesome.

Suppress not kill. If you suppress a unit, it usually cannot shoot back. You only need 1 suppression to silence a unit as opposed to 4 kills. If you fire to suppress again and are successful, the unit is disrupted. The third time it is routed and gone.

Another tactic is to suppress and then assault. A pinned or disrupted unit does not fight well.

Flamethrowers are great. The reinforcement decks give you these if the scenario does not. A squad base with 1 elite, 2 regs and an officer with flamethrower speciality is awesome. Save it for when you really really need to take an objective, or an enemy squad is really irratating you

Would appreciate comments

John

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When the game first came out there was published on the contributors site, a set of tank charts for most WWII tanks. Along with that there was also some suggested rules regarding tank movement and facing. If all you want is a board game ----fine. However those charts and suggested rules add much more to the game, and give it a minatures flavor. During WWII shermans discovered that they could not take on many german tanks in a wild west type shoot out. Instead they used their advantage of turret and gun stabilization to move and fire in attempting to get to a superior tanks flank or rear, where the armor was not quite as awesome. Using the shoot and scoot tactic.  If I lose a sherman every turn to a tiger or to a panther , the scenario would soon be over. If I read you right, you are saying that if the Germans have a tiger or panther, concede the scenario and move on to the next. I would rather play the scenario using REAL tank tactics.

                                                                                                                                                                        Sincerely, Ghengisgarber

 

 

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Op firing MGs on defense is a valid option. However, what happens when your opponent does not move, and simply drops suppression rounds onto it. A MG on op fire against a non moving opponent can easily be pinned, one suppression round, or killed by 3 successful hits, or routed by three sucessful suppression rounds from three shooting units.

for every successful tactic there always is a successful counter

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Ghengisgarber said:

When the game first came out there was published on the contributors site, a set of tank charts for most WWII tanks. Along with that there was also some suggested rules regarding tank movement and facing. If all you want is a board game ----fine. However those charts and suggested rules add much more to the game, and give it a minatures flavor. During WWII shermans discovered that they could not take on many german tanks in a wild west type shoot out. Instead they used their advantage of turret and gun stabilization to move and fire in attempting to get to a superior tanks flank or rear, where the armor was not quite as awesome. Using the shoot and scoot tactic.  If I lose a sherman every turn to a tiger or to a panther , the scenario would soon be over. If I read you right, you are saying that if the Germans have a tiger or panther, concede the scenario and move on to the next. I would rather play the scenario using REAL tank tactics.

                                                                                                                                                                        Sincerely, Ghengisgarber

  

Nothing against home grown rules, it's just difficult to be able to pop up someplace like a con and expect to be able to use them so I tend to play games as printed so that I have the maximum opportunity to find opponents.

As for the last part of your post, the only response I can offer you is see the Crossroads scenario which is very much challenging for both sides and winnable by either.  Not only does the German player have a Tiger I, they also have 3 Pz IVs and 3 anti-tank squads vs 12 shermans and 2 anti-tank squads.

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Our group rarely play at cons. We are part of DENVER HISTORICAL GAMERS. We like to get together as often as possible. Our thrust is primarily minatures, WWII, Naval, Napoleonic. Previous WWII minatures rules were extremely complicated, unrealistic and you had to stand over and bend off a large table. TIDE OF IRON made minatures fun again. The rules I refered to were Titlted EXPERIMENTAL RULES VOL 1, by ANDRAS  KOPESIK and posted 10/24/07 on the FAN CREATED SCENARIO SITE.

Take a look at them. We do not use the turning portion, and the tank is faced at the end of the turn , either down a spline line or at a hex side. A limited arc of fire vehicle can no longer fire to the rear without pivoting ( moving ). We did not like a german stug moving down a road in a north direction being able to fire to the south

                                                                                                                  Enjoy, Ghengisgarber, AKA John

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Ghengisgarber said:

Op firing MGs on defense is a valid option. However, what happens when your opponent does not move, and simply drops suppression rounds onto it. A MG on op fire against a non moving opponent can easily be pinned, one suppression round, or killed by 3 successful hits, or routed by three sucessful suppression rounds from three shooting units.

for every successful tactic there always is a successful counter

Well that's all very well but usually the attacker has limited time to achieve their objectives - if they're lurking in cover making fire groups and trying to supress MGs then they're using valuable time and won't be able to push forward with their full force once an MG is pinned.

Also MGs will usually be set up in foxholes/bunkers and if accompanied by an officer or elite soldier will be rather hard to supress.

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The other side of the coin is that you need to push through a significent force to achieve the onjective, which will usually be fairly well defended.

Personally, I do not put elites or officers on bases with MGs. The extra firepower of the elites and the extra movement of the officer is ususlly needed elsewhere. If you just fire the MG when using OP fire, the etra firepower of the elite is wasted. The extra movemnet of the officer is wasted on a unit that will not move. Plus the officer may not be able to call in artillary.

There are a lot of nuances to consider and what may be right in one situation, may be wrong in another.

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 It is really nice to put a unit up in the enemy (perferably a worse one) in a building to take them away from thinking about their objectives.

 

Also when you have a squad with only one mortar crew use it to pin a MG... 

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Ghengisgarber said:

.My group uses the tank charts published on the TOI site, along with the movement suggested changes.

I don't see this chart anywhere on the ToI web site, im interested in having a look at these optional rules, and if they were on the ToI site then i guess they are offical optional rules. I have been playing ToI for around 2 years but have never come accross this chart.

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Can  trucks block enemy squads from retreating into their hex? If so, then there should be some rule change for trucks, either they can get captured if an enemy unit moves into the same hex, or the truck gets auto destroyed by the enemy unit if it choosed to do so.

If a squad begins the round already adjacent to an enemy MG squad which is in Op fire mode, if that squad is activated to do an Assault action, is that considered movement that allows the MG squad to Opt fire first, or is the Assault action combat resolved first?

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Can  trucks block enemy squads from retreating into their hex? If so, then there should be some rule change for trucks, either they can get captured if an enemy unit moves into the same hex, or the truck gets auto destroyed by the enemy unit if it choosed to do so.

If a squad begins the round already adjacent to an enemy MG squad which is in Op fire mode, if that squad is activated to do an Assault action, is that considered movement that allows the MG squad to Opt fire first, or is the Assault action combat resolved first?

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VolksCamper said:

If a squad begins the round already adjacent to an enemy MG squad which is in Op fire mode, if that squad is activated to do an Assault action, is that considered movement that allows the MG squad to Opt fire first, or is the Assault action combat resolved first?

Op Fire is triggered by an enemy unit moving into a hex within sight and range of the unit in Op Fire mode. In the case of an assault, the movement does not happen until after the fighting has been done and the attacker (if victorious) can consolidate into the asssaulted hex ... but that movement does not trigger Op Fire according to the rules (page 34).

If the MG squad is in the hex being assaulted it can shoot back of course, but if it is not in the actual hex it can no longer interfere once the close combat has started (to great a risk to hit friendly units I guess).

 

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Ghengisgarber said:

The other side of the coin is that you need to push through a significent force to achieve the onjective, which will usually be fairly well defended.

Personally, I do not put elites or officers on bases with MGs. The extra firepower of the elites and the extra movement of the officer is ususlly needed elsewhere. If you just fire the MG when using OP fire, the etra firepower of the elite is wasted. The extra movemnet of the officer is wasted on a unit that will not move. Plus the officer may not be able to call in artillary.

There are a lot of nuances to consider and what may be right in one situation, may be wrong in another.

 

Absolutely right and usually you'll want some regulars too as cannonfodder. hwever, sometimes it may be good to put either an elite or officer on a base with an MG because it will be harder to shoot it out of op-fire (and it will recover more quickly should it be disrupted). But yes, I rarely do this as it makes each figure in the squad a pricey one when lost!

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The truck block is destroyed by Fire and Move from tank, which can then move almost as far as it would with just an Advance action, but it still deprives tank of using that fire on another unit., and if 2 trucks, one in each hex, then tank is still blocked by 2nd truck.  

Some optional rule suggestions:

1. Capturing/destroying enemyTrucks

Trucks not in same hex with friendly combat unit, may be captured or auto destroyed by enemy combat (non truck) units moving adjacent to or into hex occupied by Truck.The unit capturing or destroying truck does not have to stop, but may continue moving if still having mps left.

2. Transport Action( added to list of Actions in TOI)

A Halftrack, or Truck may be given a "Transport" Action. The HT or Truck (carrier)may move into a hex containing friendly squads and an AT gun, and if the carrier has not expended more than half of its mps, may load 1 squad and 1 AT gun if HT, or 2 squads and 1 AT gun if Truck, after which carrier movement is ended. The squad and AT gun does not require another action to activate them, as they are considered loaded as part of the Transport Action. 

If a Carrier begins round already loaded with AT gun and squads, then the Carrier may move up to half its mps then unload squads and AT gun, which are considered unfatigued when they are unloaded, and AT gun and infantry squad attached may be placed in Opt fire mode with a 2nd action. 

If carriers begin the round unloaded but in same hex with squads and AT gun, the carrier may expend half it mps to load the squad and AT gun, then may transport the squad/AT using the remaining half of the carriers mps.to another hex. After completing the transport, the squad and AT gun that were just loaded, may not be unloaded again in this same round.

3. Panzergrenadier Assault Action

A halftrack already loaded with a non MG non Mortar squad may move up to half its movement points, then unload the squad, and then the halftrack and squad may fire together, adding half each of their attack strength (rounded up) at an enemy unit in normal range of infantry squad., or on an adjacent hex containing enemy units. Up to 2 other adjacent friendly non MG/Mortar squads may also participate with the Panzergrenadier Assault, adding half of their attack strength if the target is adjacent and the 2 squads are not fatigued.

4. Halftrack Mortar ,Maultier Nebelwerfer Halftrack, and AA gun Halftrack

Halftrack with Mortar has the firepower of a double Mortar squad and range of 8 hexes. It may fire like a double Mortar squad if it does not move, or it may move up to half its mp and the Mortar fires half strength (like a single mortar squad), using Fire and Move action. It does not require LOS, as it fires indirectly. Halftrack Mortar may not transport other units.

Maultier Nebelwerfer has Attack strength of 8 and the attack is executed like a Mortar attack, with all units in hex attacked. Armored units are attacked at half, or 4 dice per vehicle. Normal range is 16 hexes. Maultier may not tranport units.

5. Anti Aircraft (20 mm and 37 mm) Halftrack. (attack strength 6 vs infantry, and range of 8) and 4 vs armored vehicles. May also be used to shoot down enemy aircraft if using optional single airplane models to conduct an air strike (another optional Action). AA Halftrack may not tranport other units.

 

 

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