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artemis8

Que: Shock troops (with PDS), Enviro comp. tech and public objectives....

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Hello. I have several questions to clarify:

a) Suppose I perform an invasion to an enemy planet. There is one enemy PDS unit on the planet. I land 2 shock troops and 1 normal ground unit. Due to enemy PDS fire I suffer 1 lose, so I choose a ground unit (which is legal by the rules). And now, what happens with my 2 shock troop units (which are now not accompanied by a ground unit)? Do they remain until the end of invasion combat shock troops or do they immediately turn into a normal ground units. If they keep their status, may they try to claim an enemy PDS/docks at the end of the succesfull invasion?

b) Enviro compesator tech increases production capacity of your docks by 1. Does it mean also increased fighter capacity (by 1)?  How it is with Saar space docks? At the beginning they have production/fighter capacity = 3. After researching Enviro comp. tech, it raises both to 4 and after researching their specific race technology, it raises to 5. OK?

c) Suppose there is a public objective "This round I took control of 3 planets."  in play. If I managed to capture 3 planets this round, but later (in the same round) my opponent conquered one of those 3 planets back, may I still claim this objective?

Thanks for your answers.

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Artemis said:

Hello. I have several questions to clarify:

a) Suppose I perform an invasion to an enemy planet. There is one enemy PDS unit on the planet. I land 2 shock troops and 1 normal ground unit. Due to enemy PDS fire I suffer 1 lose, so I choose a ground unit (which is legal by the rules). And now, what happens with my 2 shock troop units (which are now not accompanied by a ground unit)? Do they remain until the end of invasion combat shock troops or do they immediately turn into a normal ground units. If they keep their status, may they try to claim an enemy PDS/docks at the end of the succesfull invasion?

b) Enviro compesator tech increases production capacity of your docks by 1. Does it mean also increased fighter capacity (by 1)?  How it is with Saar space docks? At the beginning they have production/fighter capacity = 3. After researching Enviro comp. tech, it raises both to 4 and after researching their specific race technology, it raises to 5. OK?

c) Suppose there is a public objective "This round I took control of 3 planets."  in play. If I managed to capture 3 planets this round, but later (in the same round) my opponent conquered one of those 3 planets back, may I still claim this objective?

Thanks for your answers.

Good questions.

Here's my take on each of these:

(a) You immediately would go down to one normal GF and one ST, because you always have to take casualties to the ST first (see SE rules, pg. 10). As long as one ST survives, you can capture enemy PDS or space dock units. If at any time a ST is not accompanied by a standard GF unit, it reverts back to a standard GF unit.

(b) Enviro Compensators only have an impact on production capacity. There is no impact on space dock fighter capacity, these are always able to support 3 and only 3 fighters. The exception is the Saar racial tech, which boosts both production capacity and fighter capacity of Saar space docks. If a Saar player has EC tech, their SD capacity for production goes from 4 to 5. If that Saar player also has their Floating Factory racial tech, they would have a production capacity of 6 (base + 1 from EC) and a fighter capacity of 5.

© Generally, claiming objectives requires that the condition of the objective is met at the time the objective is claimed. Many of these cards are written in the present tense "I have x" or "I spend x" or "I control x". However, some objectives are written in the past tense: "I won x" or "I successfully invaded x". I would classify "I took control of 3 planets" into this past tense category: if at any point during the game round you took 3 planets, then you accomplished the objective even if another player or players took one or more of those planets away from you later in that same game round.

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Artemis said:

a) Suppose I perform an invasion to an enemy planet. There is one enemy PDS unit on the planet. I land 2 shock troops and 1 normal ground unit. Due to enemy PDS fire I suffer 1 lose, so I choose a ground unit (which is legal by the rules). And now, what happens with my 2 shock troop units (which are now not accompanied by a ground unit)? Do they remain until the end of invasion combat shock troops or do they immediately turn into a normal ground units. If they keep their status, may they try to claim an enemy PDS/docks at the end of the succesfull invasion?

 

 

 

If at any time a stack of ST are left without a GF escort, one of the STs immediately reverts to a regular GF.  Note that all GF/STs moving in a fleet are considered one stack, even if they are being carried on different ships (I believe that's in the FAQ, I know I considered the source official when I first heard it.)  You must keep track of which ship everyone is on, but you only need one real plastic GF unit somewhere in the fleet to meet the requirement.  The purpose is, after all, to ensure there's never a debate about who controls this stack of STs, and if they're all being carried on your ships, they must be your units.

That said, I'm not sure you could pop the GF first anyway (normally STs must be taken as casualties first.)  Assuming there's a loophole for PDS fire I'm not aware of, though, the end result is still the same.  You'll have one GF and one ST.

Artemis said:

 

b) Enviro compesator tech increases production capacity of your docks by 1. Does it mean also increased fighter capacity (by 1)?  How it is with Saar space docks? At the beginning they have production/fighter capacity = 3. After researching Enviro comp. tech, it raises both to 4 and after researching their specific race technology, it raises to 5. OK?

 

 

FT capacity is not equal to production capacity.  FT capacity is not altered by EC.

Artemis said:

 

c) Suppose there is a public objective "This round I took control of 3 planets."  in play. If I managed to capture 3 planets this round, but later (in the same round) my opponent conquered one of those 3 planets back, may I still claim this objective?

 

 

In order to claim an objective, the statement on the card must be true at the time you try to claim it.  If you took contorl of three different planets during the Action Phase, this statement will be true, even if one or more of them were subsequently lost.  Yes, you may still claim the objective.  Normally the game has no memory for past events, but I'd say this case is an exception since it's written in the past tense.

Now, if you took two planets, lost one, and subsequently found a way to reclaim it, THAT might be a bit more questionable.  Does taking control of "three planets" mean winning three invasion combats, or does it have to be three invasion combats on distinct planets?  I would be inclined to say it has to be three distinct planets, but I'd be interested to hear other interpretations.

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Steve-O said:

That said, I'm not sure you could pop the GF first anyway (normally STs must be taken as casualties first.)  Assuming there's a loophole for PDS fire I'm not aware of, though, the end result is still the same.  You'll have one GF and one ST.

 

Shock troops only need to be taken as the first casualty in invasion combat. Any other time a ground force dies, you can choose which one dies first.

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 From the SE rulebook, page 10:

Shock Troops must always be taken as casualties before any other Ground Forces during Invasion Combat. This excludes any other time that a Ground Force would be taken as casualty (bombardment and PDS Fire, for example).

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And according to pg10 of SE, if a Shock Troop is ever left without a GF, it reverts to a GF.  If you want to be really strict about it, taking the PDS hit to the GF would cause BOTH Shock Troops to revert to being GFs.

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sirjonsnow said:

And according to pg10 of SE, if a Shock Troop is ever left without a GF, it reverts to a GF.  If you want to be really strict about it, taking the PDS hit to the GF would cause BOTH Shock Troops to revert to being GFs.

No edit feature?  Anyway, if you had at least 2 GFs with any invading STs and took a PDS hit, that could go to a GF with no loss of STs.

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sirjonsnow said:

sirjonsnow said:

 

Anyway, if you had at least 2 GFs with any invading STs and took a PDS hit, that could go to a GF with no loss of STs.

Shock troops always get hit first. I think page 10 of the SE rules is quite clear that this even includes PDS fire.

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Seren said:

sirjonsnow said:

 

sirjonsnow said:

 

Anyway, if you had at least 2 GFs with any invading STs and took a PDS hit, that could go to a GF with no loss of STs.

 

 

Shock troops always get hit first. I think page 10 of the SE rules is quite clear that this even includes PDS fire.

Nope, it specifically EXCLUDES fire from PDS.  Here it is copied and pasted from the pdf:

"This excludes any other time that a Ground Force would be taken as casualty (bombardment and PDS Fire, for example)."

However, if you took the hit to a GF and had none left, then the STs would revert, as explained in the next bullet on page 10.  You just don't have to take that initial hit to ST - which you wouldn't want to do if you have multiple GFs.

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Thanks for the clarification. I've ready that at least four times and I always saw "includes". Taking remedial reading courses now, thanks. ;(

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