Inmunity out-of-play

[Masi 0]

The Black and White Ravens keep their inmunity to non-raven cards while out of play?

I haven´t found it in the FAQ

 

Thanks.

[ktom 598]

Oh, the answer is in the FAQ, just not under the entries for immunity :

(3.13) Out of Play States (...) In general, card effects on non-event cards in a player's hand, deck, discard pile, and dead pile are not considered to be actionable unless the card specifically states that it can be triggered while in its out-of-play state.

I know it may sound like it only applies to triggering effects, but the "generally" lets us extended the rule to all card text. Otherwise, there'd be a good argument that passive and constant effects on cards that you haven't played yet (including, say, income bonuses on locations) would count, even from your hand or deck.

 

So unless card text specifically says it is active in an out-of-play area, it is not. The definition of immunity does not include that kind of specific reference, so immune cards are not actually immune to anything when they are not in play.

 

[lars16 2]

if a card is not in play its text box is not considered active so it would not be immune or anything else.

 

i need to stop hitting reply and leaving the window open for 5 minutes, Ktom to the rescue

[ktom 598]

Lars said:

i need to stop hitting reply and leaving the window open for 5 minutes, Ktom to the rescue

~ "I'm just your average, ordinary, every-day super hero."

[Masi 0]

ktom said:

Oh, the answer is in the FAQ, just not under the entries for immunity :

(3.13) Out of Play States (...) In general, card effects on non-event cards in a player's hand, deck, discard pile, and dead pile are not considered to be actionable unless the card specifically states that it can be triggered while in its out-of-play state.

I know it may sound like it only applies to triggering effects, but the "generally" lets us extended the rule to all card text. Otherwise, there'd be a good argument that passive and constant effects on cards that you haven't played yet (including, say, income bonuses on locations) would count, even from your hand or deck.

 

So unless card text specifically says it is active in an out-of-play area, it is not. The definition of immunity does not include that kind of specific reference, so immune cards are not actually immune to anything when they are not in play.

 

I read it, but as you say it only refers to effects that are triggered. And I think it´s not the same that the gold bonus or other constant effects, because the inmunity only affects the card itself, and doesn´t affect any other card, in play or out of play, or the game state or whatever, only itself.

But, I´ve just look "A Time for Ravens" and it has no Raven trait, so the question is senseless. If it were inmune out of play it wouldn´t be possible to search it with the plot.

Thanks.

[ktom 598]

Masi said:

And I think it´s not the same that the gold bonus or other constant effects, because the inmunity only affects the card itself, and doesn´t affect any other card, in play or out of play, or the game state or whatever, only itself.

Ah, but since every card is part of the game state, even a card that only affects itself affects the game state. 

[Masi 0]

Maybe I´m still thinking in other CCG terms...xD

Anyway I´m not agree with a card affecting only itself, being affecting game state also, but if you say so... xD

[ktom 598]

Masi said:

Anyway I´m not agree with a card affecting only itself, being affecting game state also, but if you say so... xD

 

Granted, you're fine letting this go, but I'll give you an example:

The card "Ranger of Winter" says "If it is Winter, Ranger of Winter gains stealth, an intrigue icon, and does not kneel to defend." Let's say it is Winter when this guy is in your hand. Can you reduce the cost to play him with Shadowblack Lane ("Kneel Shadowblack Lane to lower the cost of the next character with an intrigue icon you play this phase by 1")?

See? Even though the card's constant "if it is Winter" effect only affects itself, it is also affecting the game state because the choices available to you as a player depends on whether or not that card's text is active while in your hand.

Some games say that since the card's text only changes or applies to itself (and conditions are met), you treat it as if it has an intrigue icon even before it is in play (and thus, you could lower the cost to play with Shadowblack). This game decided to go the other way, saying that no card, including itself, can affect a card that is not in play unless the effect specifically allows it to (so you cannot lower the cost to play with Shadowblack, even if it is Winter).