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f7eleven

Sooooo... Warpstone Excavation vs Innovation

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So let's say Mining Tunnels isn't the restricted card you're playing in your deck... Do you go with Warpstone Excavation or Innovation?

I'm thinking WE but haven't tested.  Thoughts?

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I dont think that there is one good answer, I think it depends on the specifics of your deck.

 

With the few things I've built so far, I've found that I've tended to put innovations into my order decks more often while putting warpstone into more of my destruction decks.

 

Very early and there have been some exceptions.  It certainly helps that destruction decks are far more likely to be able to eliminate units from haunted city than order decks are.

 

I do think that I prefer innovation in dark elf decks due dwarf slaves.

 

TL

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If Empire is one of the stronger decks in the meta, it seems like Warpstone is a weak pick since you will have to develop it against them.  If Empire turns out to totally roll over to another archetype then maybe WE is possible.

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I feel like in the new development-focused environment Innovation is the better choice since you'll be playing dev's anyway. Especially in something like Empire with Shrine of Taal and other cards such as amoury that benefit from it as well.

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In a deck that has to be fast I play WE in most other decks I'll stick to Innovation. It gives speed in the 1st turn but because of the "develop all" factor that most decks now require you don't get that much benefit from it like before. But I still like to have one on hand for paying tactics that my opponent maybe not anticpated. So I can spend all resources for playing units or support and play the tactic only when I'm forced to or if the tactic can get way more rewarding by what the opponent plays. If you don't play Innovation and are forced to keep resources it opens good possibilties for playing Dark Elf Infiltrator or Mountain Brigands.

The decision will constantly change with the metagame and of course of the decktype. With the development removal things Innovation could become weaker in the following weeks while WE has its power every turn. The only drawback of WE is Haunted City which is played in only empire decks. Though they belong now to the strongest but we will see if that changes in the next 2 or 3 battle packs. Considering that Soul Stealer and Wilhelm are restricted cards, DE maybe will get something strong in the next battle packs and Empire will get more moving effects. I think Kaiser Franz has also a movement effect and then it would be too much. Nevertheless the next weeks will be interesting and I like the way ffg has taken with the restricted list. I have faith that the game stays great.

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I'd say Innovation is the stronger card when:

  • you interact a lot on your opponent's turn
  • turn 1 is your critical turn & you need to play 4-resources worth of stuff to achieve your deck's desired tempo
  • you care about the "enters play corrupted" aspect of WE
  • you have BIG spells that you want to play in the midgame

I'd say Warpstone is the stronger card when:

  • your deck wants raw card/resource advantage more than tempo (true when EITHER your overall card quality in a phase of the game is higher than your opponent's, OR you need to dig for very specific pieces to assemble a combo)
  • turn 2-3+ are your critical turns
  • you are mostly playing "tap-out" style, meaning you don't interact significantly on your opponent's turn

In general I prefer Warpstone Excavation in a vacuum, though the choice really depends on your deck and the decks you expect to play against. 

Side note - whether to care about haunted city depends on what you are using as a win condition and how readily you expect opponents to be able to interact with it.  There are definitely decks/matchups that don't care about having a WE in their battlefield, or at least, don't care enough to offset the potential power offered by free hammers in K/Q.

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ddm has a pretty strong argument there on their respective uses.

Beware that chaos is getting a pretty strong development destruction engine though. The new descrated temples & slave pens combined with things like ungors and doom bulls will start taking over now.  Chaos is really getting a control scheme going and I'm starting to think they might be back on the rise as a viable tourney deck again. If you count on having developements in play to toss that innovation down for the counter card that you've been holding's cost then you might be out of luck if the chaos play can get a unit out of play as an action which triggers descrated temple and or the ungors developement destruction effects.

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It is also important to note that with the last in first out chains that W:I uses, you will not always be able to play innovate to respond on your opponents turn exactly the way you might like.  You could not for example have no resources open, and then respond to an opponent 'Judgement of Verena' with something like 'innovate' followed by 'High Elves Disdain' as you would not have the resources from the innovation unless you let the judgement resolve as well.

 

I think ddm put things very well, the only addition that I would make is that if you are playing cards that bring additional developments into play then innovation also becomes more attractive vs Warpstone (city gates, dwarf slaves, ancient tomb, nimble spearman, etc)

 

TL

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grille said:


Considering that Soul Stealer and Wilhelm are restricted cards, DE maybe will get something strong in the next battle packs and Empire will get more moving effects. I think Kaiser Franz has also a movement effect and then it would be too much.



Karl Fraz has indeed a movement effect but it only moves units its owner controls:

legends-karl-franz-close.png

 

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