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Legends - is comming!

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I HOPE we get Teclis and Tyrion as the High Elf legends. They could really be geared towards the HE playstyles. Teclis being able to push IDD over the top to really make it viable and Tyrion able focus a deck on units and power in the BF. I would love to see those guys.

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rings said:

I love people who have never playtested complaining about playtesting.  I have playtested various games over the years, and it has limitations.  Wizards (Magic the Gathering) pays their playtesters well, and is VERY profitable game...but they still have bannings.  Same with Decipher in the day, or Yu-gi-oh or whatever game you can imagine. 

Here are the facts on smaller game playtesting:

1.  They are not paid.  You get what you pay for.

2.  Many times, they switch playtesters for time reasons (or other reasons).  Many times you didn't playtest the last two cycles that haven't even came out yet.

3.  The company in no way is required to listen to their playtesters.  I remember once in Game of Thrones when the company decided to add the largest component of a main set after playtesting (Cannot Be Killed, a horrible mechanic).  Many times issues are found, and ignored or change in a fashion that doesn't work after playtesting. 

4.  Time constraints.  Sometimes the printers have an opening, and I have seen playtesting cycles last only a week. 

5.  You usually don't know about bannings/erratta (either card or rules) that will be happening in the 6-12 months before what you are playtesting hits the shelves.

It is a pretty thankless job, made worse by Tuesday Morning quarterbacks who have never done it...and obviously never made any mistakes in their life when looking at thousands of combos or pieces of data  lengua.gif

 

Thanks for this answer. It clears few things for me. Maybe I focused way too much on testers. I can understand they "work" in a difficult conditions and FFS doesnt need to hear them. But at glance we can see Hemmler is way too powerfull, same goes for mining tunnels. It doesnt recquire a lot of imagination that unit which costs 5 EE and has 5 power, 5 hit points, no drawbacks and good ability is a broken card which ruins balance.

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Hemmler's good, sure. But his ability can backfire, you can have only one of him in play, and his faction otherwise seriously lacks heavy hitters. If you're dependant on a single hero with a great cost/hammers ratio, it's not too hard for the opponent to counter that. Hemmler is a good card, but that's not really the issue, Empire's current overall strength is. If he were a Chaos unit, people wouldn't have such big problems with him, and Chaos still wouldn't be the biggest bully in the playground.

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According to my shop  it will be in stores in June 2011 but it's to soon to give us a concrete release date.  But a couple days ago I pre-ordered it and now just waiting for the release. I hope it will be soon.

PS. I heared a rumour that it will be two weeks after Signs In The Stars and before The Eclipse Of Hope. But remeber it's just a rumour at this point.

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Mamut said:

Thanks for this answer. It clears few things for me. Maybe I focused way too much on testers. I can understand they "work" in a difficult conditions and FFS doesnt need to hear them. But at glance we can see Hemmler is way too powerfull, same goes for mining tunnels. It doesnt recquire a lot of imagination that unit which costs 5 EE and has 5 power, 5 hit points, no drawbacks and good ability is a broken card which ruins balance.

For sure they are strong.  I don't think either of them are game-breaking though, and really that is what you look for.  It is REALLY hard for a 5 cost character (and Hero which has a slight limiation) to be broken though - my Order decks always run 6X direct 1 for 1 removal cards, and most of my Chaos decks do too.  He has a drawback (being controlled fairly easily and he is expensive).   Mining Tunnels is tougher, it really has no drawback - I think that is a case of being an early card, and even the game designers can't really tell how power levels will work. 

Here is an interesting article for anyone who cares - MTG has the same problem with professional budgets and playtesting:

www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx

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Yeah I cant really think of any excuse for mining tunnels other than an apology. happy.gif  I put them into every order deck that I built from the moment they came out until they were restricted and I never regretted it once.  There was a match at worlds in which I had a triple warpstone turn one and my opponent was out resourcing me significantly with his two mining tunnels until I was able to destroy one.

 

I dont personally really feel like there are any other glaringly unbalanced cards after the change to repeater and reaper bolt throwers. 

 

Innovation & warpstone were close, but could (and did) go into every deck.

Reclaim the Fallen was more of a problem due to the fact that no destruction deck could really answer it in any way.  Order could at least disdain it or cancel the damage.

 

Hemler seems like he is a little undercosted, but isnt exactly broken.  He should probably have been 4 power/ 4 hps or more loyalty.  Also his drwaback is frequently a boon instead, but still I dont find him broken really, he is still just a unit after all.

 

Master Rune of Spite may have been too good with how out of character it is for an order card I guess.

 

Overall, in my opinion there has not been a slew of unbalanced cards or anything.

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Vitamin T said:

Hemler seems like he is a little undercosted, but isnt exactly broken.  He should probably have been 4 power/ 4 hps or more loyalty.  Also his drwaback is frequently a boon instead, but still I dont find him broken really, he is still just a unit after all.

 

I guess its hard for any unit to be "broken" then, since they will always be easy to deal with (ok, they could make a unit that is not targetable by card effects).  The power level of Heimler is really really far off though.  Even at 4/4 he would among the strongest 5 cost units.  It seems like his ability was perceived to be a much larger drawback than it actually is, perhaps because Empire seems to have a "lots of units in the BZ" mentality to some of its cards, and in that case he might hurt you.  The "when opposed in combat" trigger, really softens the penalty though.

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He isn't broken that's also what I think but he let's he you spare some some other damage cards as you don't rely on combos or developments to bring the damage down. There are plain 5 hammers for 5 resources permanent, no destruction unit comes close to that. Bloodthirster costs way more and has a drawback that can be used against you if the opponent removes your other battlefield units. It isn't so that empire has no punch since you have some power boosting cards via developments/moving and there are Knights Panther, Grail Knights, Bright Wizard Acolytes and Thyrus Gorman. They also have that "one unit cannot defend" mechanic in some cards which compensates the lack of damage and empire has a lot of control so it should be even without doing as much damage as other factions.

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Another thing about Hemmler is that he is also a hero.  Using a hero in this game is often tough when there are other hero's in your decks that need to be considered.  Hmmmm I can think of one other Empire Hero that might want to keep a hold of his space in the battlefield.  On that note, imo Hemmler is a fantastic card to bumb the power of your Kingdom zone to outrageous levels by mid game.

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When it comes to empire units I hate rodrik's raiders so much more than hemmler. After all, wight lord is hemmler's daddy.

This thread is seriously derailed, but I just had to put in my two cents.

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It's me again - Youre FFGfan with some new great previews of cards from this expansion.

107724_335591_4.jpg Each unit gains a P if a zone is burning.

107724_335569_7.jpg If You control a Legend, this unit gains - "Action: When this unit attacks, destroy target damaged unit."

And how do You like that?

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 Assassin is a worst DE unit I've ever seen.

Destro "Spawn of Itzl" - With strange loyalty cost, 2 HP, and "legend only" action.
After seeing these cards, ill better wait for a full spoiler before ordering Legends expansion.

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One use I can think of and it's a bit of a stretch is that you attack and can't kill all your opponents defenders, so you instead spread the damage around as evenly as possible. Then use the DE Assassin (since the Action: is not limited or triggered) to kill off all the now wounded units. Of course, your opponent should see it coming a mile away, but maybe he needs to defend in order to prevent losing that second zone this turn.

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 Assassin will kill only one target damaged unit since his action is a "triggered" action, 
that works only once per trigger condition (assassin is declared as attacker).

 

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Severance said:

 Assassin is a worst DE unit I've ever seen.

Destro "Spawn of Itzl" - With strange loyalty cost, 2 HP, and "legend only" action.
After seeing these cards, ill better wait for a full spoiler before ordering Legends expansion.

Might work well in a Chaos deck such that you only have to do 1 damage to a unit (with one of their many damage doing abilities) because the assassin can then finnish him off.

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This ability should be better for destruction that for order in theory.  I agree with you that he seems like he should be like 2 cost or at least only 1 loyalty with the legend restriction.

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 Image taken from spanish publisher 

WI_Leyendas_ORK.jpg

Google translate text as:
Each damaged unit you control cannot be targeted with card effects.

Nice addition to the Ork self-damage deck.

 

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Since you're not one of los adversarios, I'd say you can. But I don't speak Spanish. gui%C3%B1o.gif 

 

More importantly, I get the first impression that Destruction's legends are more powerful than Order's. Which seems like a good thing, based on the current state of the game.

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Mallumo said:

Since you're not one of los adversarios, I'd say you can. But I don't speak Spanish. gui%C3%B1o.gif 


 

That's correct, your opponents are the ones that can't target your units. I'm not yet completely sold on destruction's legends being the most powerful, however. For one, I do not like Archaon's effect since you must risk him in combat to trigger it.  I guess we will know more as, hopefully, more cards are previewed.

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