2 Clash of Arms questions

[DerBarchen 3]

Hey guys, I was wondering about two cards in the CoC cycle.

First of all, does a characted with Dragon Bite still count his strength towards a challange in which he participates with a dragon? As in, does the character dying mid challange affect the strength of the challange?

Secondly, Martiall Law says "attatch to a location. Kneel that location" Does this kneel work indefintely? I assumed it was only for the turn you attatched the card but my friend made a good point that it would be more nedly and justify the card being 2 gold if the kneel lasted the rest of the game.

Thanks!

[Saturnine 47]

 1) Since declaring defenders and the challenge resolution happen in different framwork action windows, I would think the character dies in the window in which he is declared defender and has already left play when the winner of the challenge is determined, so his strength wouldn't count.

2) I'm really not sure. My inital reading of this was that "Kneel that location" was an extension of the directive "Attach to an opponent's location" and thus a one time kneel. Also, because kneeling a card is an action as opposed to a state (like your strength, for example), it feels odd to consider it a constant effect. But I could also be convinced that it is indeed working constantly on the character and kneeling him right after standing, if someone more rule-savvy would make that case.

[ktom 598]

Saturnine said:

1) Since declaring defenders and the challenge resolution happen in different framwork action windows, I would think the character dies in the window in which he is declared defender and has already left play when the winner of the challenge is determined, so his strength wouldn't count.

Correct. As soon as the Dragon enters the challenge, the character with Dragon Bite dies. The death happens before the challenge resolves, so the character is gone - and cannot add anything to the challenge resolution. This is true whenever a participating character leaves play before you get to the "time to see who wins" part of the challenge.

Saturnine said:

2) I'm really not sure. My inital reading of this was that "Kneel that location" was an extension of the directive "Attach to an opponent's location" and thus a one time kneel.

Hold on a second. This implies that you think "attach to an opponent's location" is a one-time restriction. It is not. It is a permanent attachment restriction so must always be true. If it is ever not true (for example, because either the location or the attachment changes control), the attachment becomes illegal and is discarded. The FAQ entry on attachment restrictions is very clear that "attach to a..." type restrictions are constant and must always be true to keep the attachment in play, not true only when the attachment first enters play.

Saturnine said:

Also, because kneeling a card is an action as opposed to a state (like your strength, for example), it feels odd to consider it a constant effect. But I could also be convinced that it is indeed working constantly on the character and kneeling him right after standing, if someone more rule-savvy would make that case.

This part is correct, mostly. Kneeling the location is not a restriction on playing the attachment (the way "attach to an opponent's location" is); it is an effect that happens when it is played. As such, it is simply kneels the location. The "kneeling" state is not permanent and the location can stand.

As mentioned, "kneel that location" is an action that needs to initiate somewhere to actively change the state of the card. There is no instruction for when "kneel that location" would actively change the state of the attached card (beyond when it enters play). Without an instruction for how to initiate the "kneel that location" after the card has been played, you cannot activate it again. So without an activator for the "kneel that location" command, that part of the attachment has no way to reassert itself and the location can stand - and stay standing.

[DerBarchen 3]

Thanks guys! I assumed both those things from the start but I thought it was better to check. Maybe I should just go with my gut next time eh?

[player1181705 0]

I think it may be better to go with the saying, "the only stupid question is the one not asked," instead of going by one's gut.  However that may just be me. 

[snaggrriss 7]

A wise man said , " Better to ask questions and look stupid for a few moments than to  ask none and be stupid the rest of your life".