Luthor Harkon 13 Posted February 20, 2011 Bladehate said: See, this attitude is one that I don't quite understand. RPing is about making some fun, interesting choices as a group and then dealing with the consequences. Absolutely, but in his view (ouch…) it is simply no fun to have poor quality augmetics in his skull that give him at least -10 to all sight-related tests (including BS) neither is it fun to be dead. Most of my other players see (ouch…) it as you say. The Guardsman player for example burned a Fate Point only seconds after the Assassin lost his eyes, so that he did not have to hold his guts to keep his innards in the abdomen (rending critical 7) but was able to join the fray against an unboud Daemonhost that just appeared (the witch in the assault on the White Scholar rolled a 93 on the Perils of the Warp table…). This way he prevented a total party wipe. It is fun for the Assassin (a very opportunistic Son of Dispater by the way) and the other PCs hate him for that rather often, but he is deadly as hell with his called Dual Shot Fate Bringers to the head and thus the group tends to excuse most of his ego-trips. He sends heretics that fast to the Emperor, that he can be considered not such a ‘bad’ servant to the Emperor in fact. Still, what shall I do with him anyway? It wouldn’t be funny for him (and as you said it is about making/having fun) to simply be executed by their Inquisitor, would it? Besides, I really fear the other PCs will miss him in the final fight against the Widower and the Heron Mask, as he is one of the few able to deal enough damage against high-T-opponents like the former and is able to snipe against the vital Hell Heart of the latter and thus have a chance to best him at all. That at least might teach him staying in bed is not the right option just because his eyeballs exploded… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Storhamster 0 Posted February 20, 2011 Luthor Harkon said: Bladehate said: Besides, I really fear the other PCs will miss him in the final fight against the Widower and the Heron Mask, as he is one of the few able to deal enough damage against high-T-opponents like the former and is able to snipe against the vital Hell Heart of the latter and thus have a chance to best him at all. That at least might teach him staying in bed is not the right option just because his eyeballs exploded… If this is one of the core issues I have a suggestion that might allow them to win the fight without the assassin or, indeed, without firing a shot. Since the widower and the heron mask will be almost unkillable without the assassin's special skills the group will need to improvise. How about giving them a few hints about what is about to happen and where. If they get the hints let them get access to some high quality explosives or even nerve gas. Then simply wait until good old Heron and the widower have at each other and blow the entire mansion to dust. If anything survives it should be damaged enough that the other acolytes can perform a simple mercy-kill. My point is this: This is an ideal position to be in if you want your players to think outside the box. Let the assassin be blind since he chose to be so and make it hard and expensive to find good replacement eyes. Meanwhile the other players show that even without the assassin the will be just fine since they can improvise. Their inquisitor will no doubt be pleased that they found an interesting tactic that led them to victory despite their most deadly warrior being out of commission. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bladehate 112 Posted February 20, 2011 I agree with Stor. This sounds like an opportunity to let the group try something other then a "brute force" approach. One thing to consider is that the Revel is just that: A party...albeit a really deadly one, not just for the players. People are bringing all manner of powerful weaponry and items (refractor fields perhaps?) to protect themselves and kill their rivals. According to the storyline, there is also a chance for players to make friends and allies during the Revel as well. Perhaps a clip of Executioner shells or other unusual (but powerful) ammo could be acquired. These are after all the elite of Calixis so some very unusual items could be justified in showing up. Alternatively...play with the enemies a bit (which I'm sure most GMs do) to match up with the group's status and current condition. A good example might be the Widower. If they have encountered it before, they ought to know the thing is almost immortal...except during the minutes of total darkness during the Revel. But rather then this being some Deus Ex thing where suddenly its attributes stop working, perhaps the real danger is the Steel Clock and its Keystone. Only the distortion effects of the Steel Clock (to which the Widower is linked) can really destroy the creature. To that end the players could be allowed to notice that the Widower keeps well clear of the Steel Clock, and even regards it with a certain amount of fear. Thus the conflict becomes to maneuver the Widower closer to the clock and then either knocking it into the clock or what have you, rather then a brute force conflict. Perhaps one of the massive chandeliers conveniently dangling above the clock could be used...? Encouraging players to think outside the box will generally lead to more rewarding "boss" fights since players feel even smarter and cooler for winning despite the odds. It also allows for some pretty unique and interesting kill descriptions other then the -8 impact critical from the wounds table in the books... Also, if I was the Assassin I'd rather take a...temporary till he can get better implants...-10 to my rolls then not be able to roll at all. You've given him the choices and he's refused them. That means he's essentially chosen to "sit this one out" and that's really his problem, not yours. I have had a (thankfully only once) player who occasionally just wouldn't play along with the plot, militantly doing their own thing at the expense of the story line, the group and the campaign as a whole. This strikes me as a less offensive version of that, but it still makes me start looking around for some particularly nasty way to off the character and ask the player to leave the game. If people won't play along, then there is no reason to waste my time, or the time of the fellow players. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luthor Harkon 13 Posted February 21, 2011 @Storhamster Thanks for the input. It is not really one of the core issues. I don’t really know whether the Widower and the Heron Mask will be unkillable for the group (maybe the two kill each other), but I suppose it is far more difficult without the Assassin. The group already accumulated a lot of hints and information and already suspect that the Steel Clock is the key(-stone) to take care of the Widower somehow. So, the players might indeed solve it without too much force, though the Heron Mask has to be handled with anyway… @Bladehate If I was the Assassin, I’d also take these implants, but I’d also had burned a Fate Point in the first place. The player is a little weird at times, but he is in my group for about ten years and I would never kick him out. Still, this is one of the strangest incidents I had in about 20 years as a GM. Maybe he still has this freelancing WFRP-adventurer type of character in his mind (we played WFRP for most of the last decade) and I must strongly remind him that it is his duty to the Emperor (and thus his Inquisitor) to not simply lie in bed. The problem is that TF is not a clear cut mission, but something the PCs fell into without a briefing or direct orders. In fact he is not ‘wasting the fellow players or my time’ and I want to have an in-game solution to this ‘problem’. It is so far not a problem as such beyond the game (just some sort of ‘irritation’ maybe). Your advices already helped a lot in this regard. Thanks for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bladehate 112 Posted February 21, 2011 Well, a long time player is a lot different then a random guy that joined a game I ran while I was in the army. I can better understand your desire to work with him so-to-speak. I would probably point out to him that Fate Points exist to allow the GM to slip him past these little bumps in the road, like having his eyes explode... Perhaps you could offer him the chance to burn a Fate Point and have a "windfall" come his way? Perhaps the White Scholar managed to scrounge up a reliable connection with a local Augmeticist who can hook him up with some quite decent cyber-eyes and some serious drugs to tide him over until he can get into re-hab and recovery after the mission is over with? Perhaps he has access to some specialized and highly unusual drugs that mimic the effects of Auto-sanguine while they are in the body, that sort of thing. Again, since this is the playground of the obscenely wealthy, there really isn't much of a limit on what could theoretically be available...it might even be fully Adeptus Mechanicus sanctified so the Tech-Priest can't object. The price for doing this, might mean that you extend the final installment time as he has to recover from the time spent, or that some of the high quality features are disabled or take longer to retro-fit. Just as a way to justify the "rush job" without penalizing the assassin so much that he balks at the whole idea. I don't know if expanding the use of Fate Points in this way appeals to you, and I guess it would be a good idea to not actually reward the guy since that might be unfair to the others in the group. Just regular augmentations, and let him worry about upgrading later would probably be most appropriate. But at the same time, giving him a freebie when the Guardsman already burned an FP to keep pushing the plot doesn't strike me as particularly fair either... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedSkull 84 Posted February 22, 2011 Of all the ideas that have been presented I favor the stranger that appears with replacement eyes....Noting Like a good ole demon pact to make future plots more interesting. If you want to be really evil about it if they haven't gone through Damed Cities yet then the Demon in the mirror could be the one that replaced his eyes The tech priest idea could work its just difficult to do with out the proper tools or "hospital" .... but remember there is that sort of gladiator area that is there if they need to make some money. They could also do the job of getting rid of the spider bride .....or she might know how to replace them if they make it back from handing over her "gift". There are plenty of options to choose from...but I agree with some of the others in that you shouldn't "baby" him or else they will never burn fate points since you will just give them an out. Remember this isn't a movie and just because they are PCs doesn't mean that they have 'Main Character Field" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
