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Argon

Flute of the Outer Gods question

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kind of on-topic..

if you get devoured when killing a mi-go, warlock or similar monster that instead of becoming a trophy gives you something.. does the new investigator get the unique item, clue tokens, dollars, etc? it seems like a timing issue, and those should work out well for the (new) investigator, shouldn't it? :)

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Julia said:

Argon said:

 

[...] there is a great difference between monsters on the Terrible experiment card, and normal monsters swarming Arkham. Basically, if there is a group of monsters in a street, you have to deal with all of them. With the Terrible experiment card, you're allowed to cherry-pick them. And this is a great difference. 

I would say, not so great. You can simply choose to fight all of them! At once! And there they are, all cute and unsuspecting, when "toot, toot, toot, AAAAAAARRRRRRGHGHGHGHGHGH!!!!!"

As I said originally, I don't dispute that you could read the letter of the rules the way you have; but my (yes, house-) ruling was that it worked.

It was much too satisfying to pass by, really.

 

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The sanity and stamina loss on the Flute is not a cost—it's an added effect. You can use it to deliberately be devoured.

Taurmindo said:

kind of on-topic..

if you get devoured when killing a mi-go, warlock or similar monster that instead of becoming a trophy gives you something.. does the new investigator get the unique item, clue tokens, dollars, etc? it seems like a timing issue, and those should work out well for the (new) investigator, shouldn't it? :)

Um, I guess it's a timing issue, so you could choose to get devoured, and then the successor receives the items and clues.

But, the Flute could not be used on The Terrible Experiment.

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Tibs said:

 

 

Um, I guess it's a timing issue, so you could choose to get devoured, and then the successor receives the items and clues.

You mean trophies?

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The successor will receive the trophies no matter what. Either the investigator dies first and the new one gets the trophies, or the one who's about to die gets the trophies and they transfer to the new investigator.

That answer was in response to "what happens to monsters that don't leave trophies, like the Mi-Go and the Warlock"?

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Tibs said:

That answer was in response to "what happens to monsters that don't leave trophies, like the Mi-Go and the Warlock"?

I guess you're saying that your investigator gets devoured, then you receive the clues and/or items at roughly the same moment that you receive your next investigator.  But why would your next investigator receive those items?  It is because it's the player, and not the investigator, that receives items and clues?  That seems odd.  

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I think it's because it's considered a "timing" issue. And with timing issues, the player decides what happens when. So you get devoured at the same time the monster is defeated. If that's so, do you get the items before you get devoured? Or after? If it's after, they'd go to the new investigator, since you get a new investigator once (s)he is devoured. But I think what you were getting at, Avec, is, are those things tied to the investigator who used the item, or the person who used it?

 

(personally, I play that the new investigators don't even exist until the start of the next upkeep phase, but the # of investigators is still the same for monster/rumors and such. So they wouldn't get them, regardless. But...that's just me!)

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I would play it this way if the Flute of the Outer Gods devours you:

1) You defeat all monsters and claim all trophies.

2) You die.

3) Draw a new investigator that would retain all of the newly obtained monster trophies, but would not receive any items, money, or clue tokens from monsters.

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Yeah, I think I got confused. Investigator X uses the Flute and nukes the monsters, but dies in the process. Investigator Y steps in to replace him, halfway across town. Investigator Y inherits monster trophies as per the "replacement investigator" rule, but since he did not defeat the "treasure" monsters, he does not get the treasure.

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avec said:

the next investigator receives the trophies only

I had completely failed to notice that Devoured investigators carry their tropies over to the replacement.... and I had 2 out of 4 investigators devoured last game!

I simply assumed that everything just goes back in the box/cup/deck.

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i'm not completely convinced about killing warlocks etc while being devoured .. the rules specify to immediately draw a new investigator. and while he/she may start in a different part of town, that's not really an argument (if so - should this argument be rendered invalid if the flute is used on science building and i draw kate?)

if i would've drawn the investigator at next upkeep and/or next mythos, it would be a different case.. but since the investigator is immediately in play (and thus affected by mythos card or a color out of space monster movement etc), i'd say he's in play at once.

it does seem like a timing issue.. and the effect of drawing clue tokens, money, cards etc is instead of getting the trophy. thus instead of giving the trophy to the new investigator, he/she could receive the different award for killing monsters.

anyhow. i'm not completely convinced here.

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I think the main point is the wording on those monsters. "If you pass a combat check". The new investigator hasn't passed the combat check, thus he shouldn't receive clues, nor items or whatelse. Besides, let's say an investigator defeats a Mi-go and receive a Unique item. 10 rounds later, he's devoured. The new investigator does not inherit that Unique item, even if he is entitled to inherit all trophies. So, I'd say the unique item / clues / money are lost with the devoured investigator.


Last but not least: I know the rules suggest that the new investigator enters immediately the game, but I never felt at ease with this, and I think - IIRC - that all this issues about when a new investigator can enter play will be covered in the next FAQ. For now, I play that new investigators enter play during next Upkeep. This stops a little the tactical devouring issue. I know, probably I'm houseruling this

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Yeah, I changed my mind (as seen above). The new guy will get the trophies, but not the clues and items awarded by Warlocks and Mi-Go (since he did not kill them).

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Julia said:

 

For now, I play that new investigators enter play during next Upkeep. This stops a little the tactical devouring issue. I know, probably I'm houseruling this

 

 

Phew! It's always good to know that you're noy the only one who plays a certain way :-D

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EcnoTheNeato said:

Julia said:

 

 

For now, I play that new investigators enter play during next Upkeep. This stops a little the tactical devouring issue. I know, probably I'm houseruling this

 

 

 

 

Phew! It's always good to know that you're noy the only one who plays a certain way :-D

Same for me. I think of it as being knocked unconscious/insane. You would be "sent" to the new characters starting location and miss the rest of your turn.

I never realised there was a tactical devouring issue! I've never even considered getting an investigator deliberately devoured. The only exception being when an Other World encounter offered the chance to seal the gate in exchange for being devoured. As this was for the 6th seal we grabbed the chance.

Having to struggle through with a "bad" investigator in some games is just part of the fun/challenge/trauma of Arkham.

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Some people see it as a challenge of "How quick can I get devoured?" when they draw their least favorite. Or Tommy Muldoon...Some monsters/AOs make this a might bit easier, though!

 

Not that I play that way, unless they die in hilarious spectacle. I'm ALL for that...

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EcnoTheNeato said:

Some people see it as a challenge of "How quick can I get devoured?" when they draw their least favorite. Or Tommy Muldoon...Some monsters/AOs make this a might bit easier, though!

 

Not that I play that way, unless they die in hilarious spectacle. I'm ALL for that...

Also, if you deliberately denude your investigator before sending him or her to certain death, you get back a new investigator with new items and money (and fully refreshed health and sanity).  So.  Heh.  Yeah.  It's definitely a strategic option if there's a Shan or a Moonbeast on the board.

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I was dealt Tommy Muldoon at a friends' house, and it was my first experience with him and Personal Stories. Needless to say when a Shan came around, I threw Becky (his rifle) to the Fed, along with everything else I had, then used his "Hero" ability. And it was bye-bye Tommy! After that I got the Bounty Hunter and thoroughly enjoyed myself ^_^

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EcnoTheNeato said:

 

I was dealt Tommy Muldoon at a friends' house, and it was my first experience with him and Personal Stories. Needless to say when a Shan came around, I threw Becky (his rifle) to the Fed, along with everything else I had, then used his "Hero" ability. And it was bye-bye Tommy! After that I got the Bounty Hunter and thoroughly enjoyed myself ^_^

 

 

Why is it that committing suicide by Shan makes one a hero?  I mean, seriously, he didn't even try to fight it.  He was just like, "Eat me you bastard!  I can beat you with both hands tied behind my back and my feet chained to the floor!"

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It would certainly be more thematic if Tommy were devoured by drawing pairs of injury or madness cards.  Shouldn't even be that hard, if your sick and twisted enough.  Of course, it's still the same question how does it help anyone in Arkham for you to lose against a monster?  If you could wound monsters, it might make some sense.  

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