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Cubano

Advance campain balance? (RTL)

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Hello.

I have few questions as I bought RTL recently and think about playing it with friends. There are few things that concerns me greatly and I need few advices from those of you who played it already. We have played sort of test so far, few dungeons and few weeks game time.

1. It seems to me that Heroes start very disadvantaged to OL. Only one skill and basic equipment. OL can start with 3 Lieutenants who will manage to raize one city before I even get some stuff and XP to get going. How to deal with Lieutenants attacking cities at early stages?

2. Dungeon are very diffucult at the beginning, first level Heroes gained like 5XP while OL gained like 12 simply by killing weak heros, boss was very diffucult, starting heros are not able by deal more than 5-6 damage on regular basis and level leaders are very strong. Second level went a little better, but only because I spent all money on buying random treasure to boost Heroes performance. So is it normla that OL gains more XP than Players ?

Thanks for all advices.

 

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1st of all you can't start with 3 LT the starting 15 can only be spent on avatar upgrades. 2nd you need advanced knowledge of the campaing play to be competent as a party. 3rd you must master the art of running in dungeons levels activating on the 1st turn the glyph and then trasporting everyone there. That would mean you can finish a dungeon on 3 to 6 turns. That is why acrobat is essential or zyla if you get her is godly. Anyway you will find that the campaign has a pretty steep learning curve and the heroes will get slaughtered even against a bad OL since a bad party in terms of experience in playing the campaing will almost always lose. There are alot of factors and yes i believe it favors the OL in general but i don't think it is unbalanced after making 5 campaings. I find that things have been balanced now at least for our group by gaining experience in game style.

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Cubano said:

Hello.

I have few questions as I bought RTL recently and think about playing it with friends. There are few things that concerns me greatly and I need few advices from those of you who played it already. We have played sort of test so far, few dungeons and few weeks game time.

1. It seems to me that Heroes start very disadvantaged to OL. Only one skill and basic equipment. OL can start with 3 Lieutenants who will manage to raize one city before I even get some stuff and XP to get going. How to deal with Lieutenants attacking cities at early stages?

2. Dungeon are very diffucult at the beginning, first level Heroes gained like 5XP while OL gained like 12 simply by killing weak heros, boss was very diffucult, starting heros are not able by deal more than 5-6 damage on regular basis and level leaders are very strong. Second level went a little better, but only because I spent all money on buying random treasure to boost Heroes performance. So is it normla that OL gains more XP than Players ?

Thanks for all advices.

 

1. No, actually. Good hero players will usually start off slightly better than the OL, but as soon as the OL gets his first monster upgrade the heroes will be in trouble for a wee while.
As Drglord said, starting XP can only be spent on Avatar upgrades, which do not include Lts or Treachery. It is a bt confusing because the mixed up some passages in the rules, but that is the correct reading.
Still, Alric is a tough ask for early heroes (though by no means impossible) and an early(ish) Tamalir Raze is one of the OL's strongest winning strategies. Bear in mind (as a noob you aren't aware unless you did some research) that if the heroes make it to the final battle they win about 95+% of the time, usually with embarrassing ease.

2. Some dungeons are very difficult, some are very easy. Heroes have the ability to flee the dungeon at almost any time (often after looting it a bit even if they don't kill the boss) so they control the progression rate.
Starting heroes and skills should very much aim towards high-as-possible damage output for at least 2-3 heroes. You can use fatigue and power potions to boost your damage output against the bosses.
Be aware that buying random treasures is illegal. The town rules from vanilla do not exist - they are replaced by very different town rules in RtL. for buying treasures, you must visist the market, so read the rules for the market carefully.
It is common that OL gets more XP than heroes early on, but it is not normal. Noob groups (or groups that simply aren't very good) who haven't planned, researched or thought about the game well often get hammered early on but experienced or smart groups do not.

Advice:
1. This is an Advanced Campaign. It isn't easy, it requires thought, care and planning - by both sides, but particularly by the heroes early on. The learning curve is quite steep for the heroes. In particular, the heroes must understand that they drive the campaign engine (they control the rate of CT accumulation because they can flee at almost any time). They should be able to keep their eyes on the  big campaign picture at all times (the road) and not get caught up in the tactical parts of 'working' the engine (fighting in the dungeon, = using gears and pedals) or they will drive in the wrong direction, into a tree or over a cliff. This means that they really should have played at leas 5+ quests, +1 from each expansion being used.
2. In addition, committing 60-100hrs to a campaign, they would be wise to have studied the rules and done some research on strategies and tips before they start, probably for an hour or so each at least, + some discussion time together. They should have studied the possible upgrades available to both sides - being aware of what important upgrades the OL can get as well as their own upgrading plans. You don;t go into a WWII grand campaign and get 'surprised' as the germans when the russians bring out the T34...
3. As you have noted, early on damage is at a premium (it gets worse from where you are now before it gets better). Thus heroes should be chosen with a strong eye towards damage output, and skills also tending towards damage output.
4. You need to have at least 2 Ranged/Magic users, preferably one of each, and 1 Melee hero. The 4th hero is usually best as a runner type, preferably backing up as a capable Magic or Ranged user. Unlike vanilla, where two tough melee heroes is quite useful, the OL has tools to make life very difficult for hero parties with that sort of balance (primarily soaring monsters in encounters).
5. Learn about Blitzing (search BGG). There is a time and a place for blitzing, but most times and places are early in a campaign. This is how competent hero players stay ahead of the OL in CT early on.
6. CT does not win the game. It is not even that good an indicator of who is ahead at any one time (though it is a weak indicator). Most new players, and even many experienced players, get sucked into thinking that CT is the most important thing. It isn't.
7. Defending cities (not countin Tamalir) is not critical for the heroes. It is better f they can, but if they spend their efforts aimed at stop seiges all the time, they will lose because they are looking at the small picture instead of the big picture. They need to be balancing whther that city is important, how long it will take them to get there, what else will be happening on the board during that time, and where the campaign situation will be when they do get there. Not to mention whether they will be able to beat the Lt if they do fight - will they be fresh and well prepared? Does the OL have treachery to support his Lt? etc etc.
Like I said, it is an Advanced Campaign...

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Thanks for all your clarification.

Especially thanks for info about BGG, I have found it and read about it.

I've decided to give it a one more shot, this time we will start from Silver level and make our way from there and see how it goes.

 

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