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Lordes

What are the rules concerning a forearm mounted bolters

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My question is: What are the rules when fighting in melee with a forearm mounted bolters can the player still use it as a pistol or not ??

 

thanks

 

Lordes

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 Well,

 

Technically only Pistol type weapons can be Fore Arm Mounted so yes...if you would somehow would mount a Basic Weapon on your Fore Arm Mount I would say no, exception might be specialist weapons such as the Angelus Boltgun

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I checked the Core book and it says that :

 

Arm weapon mounting

This heavy bracing allows a single ranged weapon to be mounted along the arm, with specific hand movements or MIU input triggering the weapon.

Upgrades: Las, Solid Projectile, Bolt, or Melta Pistol, or Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

 

so it can be any weapon class

 

thanks

 

Lordes

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Lordes said:

I checked the Core book and it says that :

 

Arm weapon mounting

This heavy bracing allows a single ranged weapon to be mounted along the arm, with specific hand movements or MIU input triggering the weapon.

Upgrades: Las, Solid Projectile, Bolt, or Melta Pistol, or Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

 

so it can be any weapon class

 

thanks

 

Lordes

As AK pointed out to me in a different thread (ne about advanced MIUs), the text there is specific to pistols (they put the suffix of pistol at the end of the set of pistols rather than after each individual pistol), so AFAIK arm weapon mounts are for pistols only, which means you could use them in hand to hand combat. 

My previous interpretation (which is the same as yours here) turns out to be kind of silly because it would allow all las weapons, all solid projectile weapons, all bolt weapons, but not meltaguns, only pistols.  So in theory you could put a lascannon or assault cannon on your arm, but not a metlagun, which makes no sense to me.

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Charmander said:

 

As AK pointed out to me in a different thread (ne about advanced MIUs), the text there is specific to pistols (they put the suffix of pistol at the end of the set of pistols rather than after each individual pistol), so AFAIK arm weapon mounts are for pistols only, which means you could use them in hand to hand combat. 

My previous interpretation (which is the same as yours here) turns out to be kind of silly because it would allow all las weapons, all solid projectile weapons, all bolt weapons, but not meltaguns, only pistols.  So in theory you could put a lascannon or assault cannon on your arm, but not a metlagun, which makes no sense to me.

+1 on this, that wording is basically saying [bolt/las/melta/SP] pistol. And back to the original question, since all of the forearm mounted weapons are pistols (except the aux gren launcher), they can be fired in melee as normal (without bonuses to range). Now the aux gren launcher doesn't even have a pistol/basic/heavy classification, but I believe ranged weapons in melee are limited to pistol, right?

 

As a house rule though, I see no issue allowing bolters and even storm bolters as forearm mounted weapons, just prohibit their use in melee. Yes, it frees up a hand for a 2h melee weapon, but marines have quickdraw, so whats the problem?

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KommissarK said:

As a house rule though, I see no issue allowing bolters and even storm bolters as forearm mounted weapons, just prohibit their use in melee. Yes, it frees up a hand for a 2h melee weapon, but marines have quickdraw, so whats the problem?

Hrm, IMHO Storm Bolters/Bolters are a wee bit big to fit on the forearm outside of terminator armor, but mechanically/rules wise it I can't imagine it breaking much.  I'd increase the req cost (as they do with the aux grenade launcher mounted on terminators) at least.

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Excellent i havent seen the rule like that but just for the sake of talking what about grey knights that have Wrist Mounted Storm Bolter I know that deathwatch surely dont have grey knights but humor me.

 

thanks

 

Lordes

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Lordes said:

Excellent i havent seen the rule like that but just for the sake of talking what about grey knights that have Wrist Mounted Storm Bolter I know that deathwatch surely dont have grey knights but humor me.

 

thanks

 

Lordes

Interestingly enough, the lexicanum has a picture of two grey knights, one in terminator armor one in "standard" PA, both with wrist mounted storm bolters.  Now the one on the standard PA guy looks smaller to me, and I'd still not personally allow it outside of terminator armor and declare the GK one special, but there is precedent for it.  I would agree though that Storm Bolters or other large weapons shouldn't be allowed to be used in hand to hand, you have to use a melee or pistol for that.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/d/dc/Grey1.jpg

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 If you were to look in the Inquisitors Handbook you are allowed to mount basic weapons on the forearm as well. Since most of the rules were copy/pasted into the Deathwatch book from other GW based RP games I would say that any Pistol or Basic weapon can be mounted in a forearm. The range of the weapon was reduced and the damage was as well I thought. I see no reason not to follow that logic with any forearm mounted weapon in DW.

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How about instead of increasing the req cost, you just require that the weapon be of exceptional or master crafted quality. (For basic weapons that is. I'm not condoning Heavies on gauntlets even with the example below.)

Most of the examples of wrist mounted weapons in the Table-Top are for elites or special characters anyway, so it would make sense that their wargear is of superior quality.

Examples: Pedro Kantor, Sanguinary Guard, Grey Knights in Power armor and there's always Vulkan's Gauntlet (Fires as a Heavy Flamer)

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I would probably rule that if players are using forearm mounting from IH (in other words, to use it with non standard equipment), that it would need to be used with signature wargear.

Past that, the variation used by the Grey Knights is probably best represented as a standard storm bolter, with the regular range penalty forearm mounting imposes. It should not be usable in melee, as basic weapons in melee = broken. Grey knights in general should be particularly powerful anyway.

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kuroifremen said:

And what about the Gauntlets of Ultramar? They incorporated BOLTERS, not Bolt Pistols...

Those are also unique items that one guy wields, and that the Empire doesn't understand well enough to replicate.  It's not like Marneus is going to let you borrow them for a while as you figure out how they work.

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kuroifremen said:

 

Ok, point taken gran_risa.gif, but I included them for completitude (Heck, Vulkan's Gauntlets had been mentioned, and there are other sets of gauntlets and weapons out there)

 

 

 

Such as Pedro Cantor's Arrow of Dorn, which is basically a wrist-mounted Storm Bolter; with Assault 4 instead of 2.  But, again, an exceptional example that does not quite set the rule.

Personally, I'd allow any of the Basic Weapon types as mentioned (Las, SP, Bolt, Melta) so long as you also applied the Compact "upgrade" from DH/RT to them.  Along with the reduced range from the arm mount, this should make such weapons less palatable to those who prefer a decently long-ranged answer to some of their problems.  Or not, really depends on my thoughts at the time when I am working up my house rules.

-=Brother Praetus=-

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Any forearm mounted weapon larger than Pistol class should probably be considered a relic and unique. Anything of this nature becomes GM's option as to what penalties to apply.

Applying both the compact and forearm mount penalties to a basic weapon seems reasonable. While a more powerful, more ancient relic may not have these limitations.

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kuroifremen said:

Ok, point taken gran_risa.gif, but I included them for completitude (Heck, Vulkan's Gauntlets had been mentioned, and there are other sets of gauntlets and weapons out there)

 

I mentioned Dorn's Arrow and Vulkan's Gauntlet because the 2 guys using them are wearing Power armor. I left out the Gauntlets of Ultramar as Marneus is stomping around in Termie Armor, making a bolter strapped to his gloves much less impressive.

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 Pistols only, for sure. It's pretty clear in the rules. cf: mobile, car, or smart phones.

Arm mounted basic weapons and storm weapons are artefacts and outside both the remit of normal rules and the PCs grasp! And the Grey Knights have always been flangy anyway, so that doesn't count!

I'd certainly allow flame pistols to be mounted too. If I was to make any arguement for any basic weapon to be feasibly mounted, then it'd be the flamer, as the ammunition could be mounted elsewhere and easily fed by a pipe.

As for DH rules saying you can mount basic weapons... those are 'mortal sized' weapons, rather than Astartes ones. I'd still not permit Astartes basic weapons to be arm-mounted, except by was of something 'special'.

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ItsUncertainWho said:

Any forearm mounted weapon larger than Pistol class should probably be considered a relic and unique.

I agree to an extent, but we do know of two non-pistol forearm mounted weapons that aren't unique relics - the Titan-pattern Stormbolter in use by the Grey Knights (the pattern was named in the Imperial Armour books, I forget which one),  and the Angelus-pattern Bolter used by Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard.

As I said, I agree to an extent - any non-pistol forearm mounted weapon should be regarded as a distinct type of weapon, often (but not always) a relic.

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N0-1_H3r3 said:

ItsUncertainWho said:

 

Any forearm mounted weapon larger than Pistol class should probably be considered a relic and unique.

 

I agree to an extent, but we do know of two non-pistol forearm mounted weapons that aren't unique relics - the Titan-pattern Stormbolter in use by the Grey Knights (the pattern was named in the Imperial Armour books, I forget which one),  and the Angelus-pattern Bolter used by Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard.

As I said, I agree to an extent - any non-pistol forearm mounted weapon should be regarded as a distinct type of weapon, often (but not always) a relic.

 

I woud classify all Astartes gear as artifacts and those two you mentioned as Relics. We're talking here about GK gear, right? Or the gear of the Honour Guard of the frickin' BAs, 1st founding chapter. How many Sanguinary Guard are there? Sure, it's not the Gauntlets of Ultramar but... they're no less sacred and special than a DW Relic Blade. My 2 cents.

 

Alex

 

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ak-73 said:

 

N0-1_H3r3 said:

 

I agree to an extent, but we do know of two non-pistol forearm mounted weapons that aren't unique relics - the Titan-pattern Stormbolter in use by the Grey Knights (the pattern was named in the Imperial Armour books, I forget which one),  and the Angelus-pattern Bolter used by Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard.

As I said, I agree to an extent - any non-pistol forearm mounted weapon should be regarded as a distinct type of weapon, often (but not always) a relic.

 I woud classify all Astartes gear as artifacts and those two you mentioned as Relics. We're talking here about GK gear, right? Or the gear of the Honour Guard of the frickin' BAs, 1st founding chapter. How many Sanguinary Guard are there? Sure, it's not the Gauntlets of Ultramar but... they're no less sacred and special than a DW Relic Blade. My 2 cents.

 Alex

 

 

Agreeing with ak-73, Grey Knights and Sanguinary Guard are very specific and very specialized units. The fact that they both have many of these relics available doesn't change anything in my mind as to their status as relics. Grey Knights may have access to hundreds of the Titan-pattern Stormbolter, but no one else does. The Nemesis force weapons are unique to the Grey Knights, they are relics if anything is, but all Grey Knights have them. 

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