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FFG Ross Watson

Deathwatch Living Errata/FAQ

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Very good to see, and glad that alot of my interpretations/house rules actually fit what the errata now says.

Now, as per the earlier post, I'll repeat the same question:

The changes to Unrelenting Devastation have made missile launchers (firing frag missiles), weaker in the hands of a devastator vs. other marines.

Devastator using UD: Base hit (1) + UD base damage (1) + UD blast damage (1d5) + devastating (1) +  X damage (1) = 4 + 1d5

Any other marine: Base hit (1) + blast (8) + Devastating (1) +  X damage (1) = 11

As the current wording is "heavy weapons with blast", not "full auto/semi auto with blast".

As was also said earlier, this seems to be a failed attempt at clarification, as the current wording in the book may confuse some, but the use of "instead inflicts 1d5" indicates that any heavy weapon with the blast quality does not add the extra 1 point of UD damage, but "instead" adds 1d5 (while also keeping the blast quality). With a heavy bolter using metal storm, this comes out the exact same (as metal storm is only blast 2, which is the same as normal hit(1) + UD extra mag damage (1)), but doesn't nerf plasma cannons or frag missile launchers.

Personally I would like to see some sort of improvement for plasma and melta weapons, as by the math, they are only marginally useful (especially given their high req cost) compared to a regular bolter. I would imagine they should either have a lower cost, or higher damage. Increasing the cost of kraken rounds does work a bit in the plasma guns favour though, as those were often cited as being the cheaper version of the same high pen effect.

Also, while not particularly important, should probably remove the wording relating to crew population and ship morale from the skill section. It would seem alot of the skill section was copy/pasted right from RT.

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The Assault Cannon could use some improvement, its RoF should be much higher compared to the Heavy Bolter.
Might I suggest raising the Clip to 400 and giving it the Storm ability?

I agree that the plasma and melta weapons should do more damage than the Bolt Pistol, enough to make it worth it.
 

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and here we go with more questions:

there are various talents that reduce full actions to a half action, like preternatural speed.

does a half action lightning attack count as ONE attack or does only the first attack out of the 3 count as "the next attack"

if you charge with lightning attack does every attack get a +10?

if yes, then after a successful feint, all 3 attacks are unavoidable? holy...

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Hive Tyrants should have Bulging Biceps ([Heavy] Venom Cannon?). In fact, one might wonder if having Unnatural Strength shouldn't automatically include Bulging Biceps.

 

Alex

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 And no clarification to Psychic Powers... Can I psyker cast Smite and attack in the same round?

Because imagine a psyker armed with a Heavy Bolter + Suspensor, who can therefore Smite and Full Auto on the same round. Pretty powerful...  

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scottpilgrrim said:

 And no clarification to Psychic Powers... Can I psyker cast Smite and attack in the same round?

Because imagine a psyker armed with a Heavy Bolter + Suspensor, who can therefore Smite and Full Auto on the same round. Pretty powerful...  

No clarification is required because the core book is already clear on the issue: a psyker can attack and use psychic power in the same round (as these are two different actions), but he's still limited to two half actions or one full action per turn. He could not do what you describe because Full Auto is a full-round action whereas Smite is a half-action.

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Razorboy said:

scottpilgrrim said:

 

 And no clarification to Psychic Powers... Can I psyker cast Smite and attack in the same round?

Because imagine a psyker armed with a Heavy Bolter + Suspensor, who can therefore Smite and Full Auto on the same round. Pretty powerful...  

 

 

No clarification is required because the core book is already clear on the issue: a psyker can attack and use psychic power in the same round (as these are two different actions), but he's still limited to two half actions or one full action per turn. He could not do what you describe because Full Auto is a full-round action whereas Smite is a half-action.

However, suspensors turn full auto into a half round action, so, by strict RAW, it is valid.

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 Oh darn, I missed the suspensors. Nvm then, by RAW it's certainly allowed as Focus Power Test has Concentration descriptor and Full-Auto burst (with Stabilized) has Attack descriptor. Broken? Perhaps, but Deathwatch Suspensor is only available at Respected rank of Renown.

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There was actually a discussion on this a while ago, don't have a link. But part of this discussion involves the rule that a standard attack action is equal to a focus power action. The loophole here is that Full-Auto is its own action, vs. the standard attack action. Some think that actions should be limited by subtype, but that is difficult to determine how game changing/breaking that would be (does it limit the players too much).

The quick fix is to say that focus power is equal to standard, semi, full auto, or multi attack actions.

This is probably an oversight, as all but the standard attack are full round actions. And I doubt it was imagined anyone but a devastator would use suspensor. It might also be fair to say suspensors can only be requsition by devastators, similar to techmarines only having access to conversion beamers.

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Razorboy said:

 Oh darn, I missed the suspensors. Nvm then, by RAW it's certainly allowed as Focus Power Test has Concentration descriptor and Full-Auto burst (with Stabilized) has Attack descriptor. Broken? Perhaps, but Deathwatch Suspensor is only available at Respected rank of Renown.

Here is the thread I think Kommissar is referring to- we didn't get (not sure we even asked) for clarification from FFG, but most people seemed to be of the mind that you can attack or you can use a psychic power, but not both.  And with suspensors, you can attack with it once, but you cannot then attack with anything else that round (including psychic powers):

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=212&efcid=3&efidt=409308&efpag=0

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Well under RAW, a Librarian with a Heavy Bolter and Suspensors can use half-action powers and fire full auto, while a Devastator can fire full auto and quick a grenade and throw it. I will admit it's valid RAW but it is not something I like.

I'm running my game this weekend but I will run some tests for this scenario so that I can get some hard numbers to see if the Lib can get overpowered under that scenario.

But my friend and I are fairly certain it's the suspensors that are the enabler, as written. Maybe they should be errata'd to "Suspensors allow the firer tmo ve at his full Agility bonus in conjunction with a full-auto burst."

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Question: do special RF rules (Hellfire, Blood Frenzy) only apply to the (first) damage roll itself (ie the the damage roll that determines if RF takes place at all) or also for all follow additional 1d10 RF damage rolls?

IOW: if a BA rolls a 9 for damage against a xeno and then rolls a 9 on the additional d10 - can he roll again?

 

I would house rule that he can't in order to increase the survivability of monsters. I've had both a Broodlord and a Tyranid Prime two-shotted with Hellfire.

 

Alex

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scottpilgrrim said:

Well under RAW, a Librarian with a Heavy Bolter and Suspensors can use half-action powers and fire full auto, while a Devastator can fire full auto and quick a grenade and throw it. I will admit it's valid RAW but it is not something I like.

I'm running my game this weekend but I will run some tests for this scenario so that I can get some hard numbers to see if the Lib can get overpowered under that scenario.

But my friend and I are fairly certain it's the suspensors that are the enabler, as written. Maybe they should be errata'd to "Suspensors allow the firer tmo ve at his full Agility bonus in conjunction with a full-auto burst."

So as per RAW + Eratta + FFG's further explanation this isn't possible.  Psychic powers count as an attack action, firing full auto counts as an attack action, as does throwing a grenade.  So all of these are 'attack actions' and can't be done in the same turn. Not to derail this thread with a discussion on the topic, but Ross has said this isn't possible.

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Charmander said:

scottpilgrrim said:

 

Well under RAW, a Librarian with a Heavy Bolter and Suspensors can use half-action powers and fire full auto, while a Devastator can fire full auto and quick a grenade and throw it. I will admit it's valid RAW but it is not something I like.

I'm running my game this weekend but I will run some tests for this scenario so that I can get some hard numbers to see if the Lib can get overpowered under that scenario.

But my friend and I are fairly certain it's the suspensors that are the enabler, as written. Maybe they should be errata'd to "Suspensors allow the firer tmo ve at his full Agility bonus in conjunction with a full-auto burst."

 

 

So as per RAW + Eratta + FFG's further explanation this isn't possible.  Psychic powers count as an attack action, firing full auto counts as an attack action, as does throwing a grenade.  So all of these are 'attack actions' and can't be done in the same turn. Not to derail this thread with a discussion on the topic, but Ross has said this isn't possible.

I'm hoping that the use of a Force Weapon doesn't count as double dipping.  It would be a shame if you can't make an attack with the weapon and still use the 'power' to inflict extra damage.  I also hope that a Librarian with Furious Assault or Swift attack can use the psychic 'power' of the Force Weapon with each strike, not just once per turn, but I'm not sure if that's legal.

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HappyDaze said:

 

I'm hoping that the use of a Force Weapon doesn't count as double dipping.  It would be a shame if you can't make an attack with the weapon and still use the 'power' to inflict extra damage.  I also hope that a Librarian with Furious Assault or Swift attack can use the psychic 'power' of the Force Weapon with each strike, not just once per turn, but I'm not sure if that's legal.

 

Page 155 is pretty clear on this. Everytime you hit and do damage, then you can channel. Maybe it should be limited. Maybe.

 

Alex

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I don't have any of the books with me at the moment, but I know in our DH group we treat the use of a force weapon with contested WP roll can only be done on 1 action, and treat it as a psychic attack. So said psyker with Swift attack swings and hits twice. The psyker can only channel one of those attacks. Since I never play a psyker Im not sure if thats a house rule or actual rules but I would treat DW the same way.

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This will stir up some commotion. Some answers from Ross Watson:

 

> 1) Can pistols burst in close combat in DW? (And if yes, doesn't
> that carry a high risk of wildly straying shots?)

No. Pistols fired in melee fire a single shot.
 


> 2) If no, does that mean this is a DW-specific change or does that
> apply to all of 40k RP?

It applies to Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, and Deathwatch.

 


> 3) What actions can be done with pistols in close combat other than
> Standard Attacks? Multiple Attack (if so only 2-handed attacks only
> or does swift strike, etc also apply)? All-out attack? Guarded
> attack? I am asking because page 240 indicates more than standard
> attacks are possible.

Standard Attack (or as part of two-weapon fighting) only.
 


> 4) Does the answer given to question 3 carry on to all of 40K RP or
> only DW?

It applies to Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, and Deathwatch.

 

 

Will post it to all 3 forums.

 

Alex

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 well... thats interesting... pretty harsh, but good clarification. Good improvement for melee I guess. I wouldn't say its too terrible, it just means that you dont want to bring a gun into a swordfight. Same as how the reverse is also true.

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MILLANDSON said:

 

That's seemingly the opposite of what we've been told before, but whatever preocupado.gif

 

 

 

I know. I wonder if it's the last thing we've heard on it. Me, I'm going to allow swift/lightning strikes with pistols. Maybe it's worth double-checking it? Wouldn't be the first time for a swift correction... anyway, I am not going to ask the man. Don't want to pester him. happy.gif

 

Alex

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I have to add a thought here: how do you recognize an Assault Marine's handedness when he wields Bolt Pistol and Chainsword? The Bolt Pistol will be in the off-hand because swift/lightning attack do not apply? gui%C3%B1o.gif

 

I'll stick to the house rule that swift/lightning attack do apply.

 

Alex

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MILLANDSON said:

That's seemingly the opposite of what we've been told before, but whatever preocupado.gif

 

Not just contradictory to what we've previously been told, but contradicted by the same rules guru from the past.  After all, when this was originally asked and answered on the Dark Heresy forums oh, almost 3 years ago now, it was Ross who answered people.

I think the change is in attempt to balance certain aspects of play.  But given the character I play sucks in melee (WS 24) and does not do TWW, this really turns him into 'Stealer treats to be anymore.  In almost 2 years of playing Stealers are the only things I've ever had to be in melee with consistently and had to rely on the spray and pray with a pistol.

I don't know.  I dislike the change given the experiences I've had and am having with the game I'm in.

-=Brother Praetus=-

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