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Drglord

Talhia giving my headaches in rulings

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My group just started their 3rd campaing after quiting in the end of copper for once more as i had 3 raged cities and 150 tokens.

Anyway they draw talhia and i really wish they never did since other that being a pain in the ass as a character she is giving me huge headaches in rulings.

From what i have seen so far in the forums they have changed the wording so she in effect gets MP up to her speed so she can in effect drink potions (if not that turn) and open chests, doors. Now here come the whacky parts.

She draw taunt so as i see it when i declare an attack she can interrupt move and then if he is a legal target use taunt when my turn resumes so to pick her as a target right? (P.S. uber powergaming). That is the easy part as now come the hardballs.

I have talhia with guard standing next to a hero. I play dark charm on her. She interrupts uses her guard and moves away so she no longer attack the target which i had declared. So what happens? I ruled that since somewhere is mentioned that when you interrupt before something happens the overlord can change his mind (in the answered questions i think) she can move away but still i can get back the dark charm since she interrupted me when i played. There are tons of stuff that can become a headache. I mean let's say i declare a spawn card. And as soon as i put some figures on board can she interrupt that by moving and say that she now has line of sight? My ruling on that is that again she could interrupt when you play the card with you having the chance to take it back if you don't like the new LOS but she can't interrupt after you start placing figures cause she has let the card being played.

 

ANyway it seems she is a pure headache in ruling and i bet there are going to be alot of more complicate stuff that are going to come to our way in this campaign. Would like your thoughts on all that and if anyone know where more official answers are about her he could point me the way as she is one complicated *****.

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Drglord said:

She draw taunt so as i see it when i declare an attack she can interrupt move and then if he is a legal target use taunt when my turn resumes so to pick her as a target right? (P.S. uber powergaming). That is the easy part as now come the hardballs.

That is legal to my understanding.  Huge pain in the ass, but legal.

Drglord said:

I have talhia with guard standing next to a hero. I play dark charm on her. She interrupts uses her guard and moves away so she no longer attack the target which i had declared. So what happens? I ruled that since somewhere is mentioned that when you interrupt before something happens the overlord can change his mind (in the answered questions i think) she can move away but still i can get back the dark charm since she interrupted me when i played.

Yes, you can declare a new target for the DC attack (and since Tahlia herself will always be in range, you will always have at least one valid target.)  It's the same as if Tahlia interrupted just before a beastman attacked her and moved away.  The beastman can declare a new target, or even abort the attack to do something else (like move after her.)  I don't think you can "undo" playing the DC card, though.  I could be wrong about that.

Drglord said:

There are tons of stuff that can become a headache. I mean let's say i declare a spawn card. And as soon as i put some figures on board can she interrupt that by moving and say that she now has line of sight?  My ruling on that is that again she could interrupt when you play the card with you having the chance to take it back if you don't like the new LOS but she can't interrupt after you start placing figures cause she has let the card being played.

I believe that is correct.  She can foil your planned spawn, but in so doing the game is "rewound" to before you played the spawn card since the entire card resolution is one effect.  You don't spend threat, you don't lose the card, and you can now choose to play that card, putting monsters in new, legal positions, or play something else, or play nothing at all.  She can foil what you had planned, but she can't force you to waste the card.

Drglord said:

ANyway it seems she is a pure headache in ruling and i bet there are going to be alot of more complicate stuff that are going to come to our way in this campaign. Would like your thoughts on all that and if anyone know where more official answers are about her he could point me the way as she is one complicated *****.

Tahlia is definitely one of the stronger heroes in the game.  Try to bait her into using her guard on useless monster moves, the same as you would with any other guarding hero, and if she doesn't bite, take a pot shot at her.  All it takes is one damage to get rid of that guard.

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Will do. My group draw tahlia, taunt. The dwarf with tough (didn't take leadership :) ), sillouete with swift, and the rune witch with prodigy so i hope they will be a challenge this time as this group seems really powerfull.

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 Have the Pride power card in play. This way you'll at least have a steady extra source of threat each time she uses Guard. Maybe this will deter the heroes from abusing Tahlia's ability.

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Bad think i am running the demon prince in this campaign. :(  . So 20 for a trap treachery no go there. If they have drawn tahlia when i played the sorcerer king it would have been a party.

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Drglord said:

Bad think i am running the demon prince in this campaign. :(  . So 20 for a trap treachery no go there. If they have drawn tahlia when i played the sorcerer king it would have been a party.

Pride is Event treachery.  Though I wouldn't be trying to get it into play in every dungeon.  Always much better to play power cards if the heroes are committed to going thru the whole dungeon.

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My bad it is event treachery and since all my party plays at least 2 or more orders per turn it feels like a one way card for me and a magnificent way to end the endless spam of the tanks attacking and dodging hence being immune to 99% of the attacks the monsters can dish out.

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Anyway i don't think we will even get to that part. Even with that amazing party i am ahead 70 to 32 CT already and it seems by the end of the copper they will quit it again. Either they are a bad bunch of players or i am playing amazing (though i doubt it since i remember alot of bad plays i have done). But as i have come to understand the OL has the chance to come back again where if the heroes **** up in a single turn it gets ugly for them. Anyway i hope they will get their act together since this is the 3rd campaign and i would hate it to never make it again to silver level.

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Drglord said:

Anyway i don't think we will even get to that part. Even with that amazing party i am ahead 70 to 32 CT already and it seems by the end of the copper they will quit it again. Either they are a bad bunch of players or i am playing amazing (though i doubt it since i remember alot of bad plays i have done). But as i have come to understand the OL has the chance to come back again where if the heroes **** up in a single turn it gets ugly for them. Anyway i hope they will get their act together since this is the 3rd campaign and i would hate it to never make it again to silver level.

Has this group played vanilla Descent extensively?  Are they familiar with the ins and outs of the game, or have they only ever played in these (aborted) campaigns?  It isn't uncommon for the OL to gain ground in Copper and then lose it in late Silver or Gold.  70-32 isn't an astounding lead, either.  Sounds to me like your hero players are a bunch of crybabies. =P

If they haven't played vanilla, I'd suggest you do that for a while.  As one-shot dungeons, those maps have less time investment and your hero players can learn how to do well without being distracted by the Overland game.  When you sit down to play the Advanced Campaign, the dungeon game should really be old hat for all concerned.  The big picture is what you should be focusing on, the dungeons are just quick CT/money runs.

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They have played extensively the quests in the vanilla decent but i guess it worked more in my favor as i learned the mechanics easier. The first 2 campaigns i played the sorcerer king with ascension and i won both since by the end of the 2nd campaign i had 3 cities raged i had a lead 160 to 60 and they had no money at all and decided it was helpeless as i had upgrade all monsters to silver while they hadn't even picked up a silver item yet. This time they are behind as i said 70 to 32 but they are still in the caverns of thull and have 3 rooms to go and i expect at least 10 to 20 more CT to come my way. I hope the immense money won though (i expect them to have 8000 or more when they come out) will help them buy the skills and party upgrades while buying copper treasures.

 

P.S **** i just remembered to ask. Party upgrades i have searched everywhere and i mean everywhere and no where it is mentioned where and how you buy them. So i have ruled that they can only be bought in the market of Talamir (even when visiting from a dungeon). I would really like to clear it up as there isn't a mention about that anywhere in the rulebook of in the forums.

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The thing is: The OL's sources of conquest are practically limitless.(hero death, deck cycling, overland map turns, bonus conquest from razed cities). while the heroes' are fixed and limited and they need to play really well in order not to fall far behind 

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It doesn't sound like they're horrible nor you perfect. It sounds like they give up if they're not in prime position. The OL is expected to lead at the end of copper, albeit not by such a wide margin as 70/30.

1) It seems like they're playing as if every dungeon must always be finished. If so, piont them t the rules about fleeing. They're in the game precisely so the OL doesn't get such a massive lead.

2) It sounds like maybe they're in the "kill it all" mindset. If so, explain that to get to the next level only the leader(s) need to die, and only one hero has to go through the portal. On the tiny RtL levels you can sometimes accomplish this by sending in a tank and sacrificing a runner.

3) Legendary areas and rumors can be a trap, especially at Copper when the heroes are weakest. Pushing through a full 3 dungeon levels can easily give up more than you gain. The exceptions are the silver and gold legendary areas, though the gold one is only an exception if it's the very last thing you do and so the huge amounts of conquest you give the OL don't really matter because even one level of one dungeon was likely to bump the campaign to the final battle.

Also, the Ironskin rumor is worth it if there's a hero who can or already has gotten Taunt, though even that combo isn't worth it if the OL is tactical enough at getting around Taunt (which is much easier than it seems at first).

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I've heard alot about that ironskin rumor and it seems that either people are taking about a sea of blood rumor or that for some reason my box never had that :)

About what you said, yes they have started fleeing dungeons after the 1st campaign, yes they have also made a runner in both campaigns and in this one they have sillouete with swift (you can't get any better than that). And yes as you can read they have 2 tanks and one of them (tahlia) having also taunt should have been a great asset but i still keep finding ways to butcher them like sheep.

Anyway i won't let them give up this time since it is becoming irritating and i would like to see at least the silver level since everyone mentions it is the most balanced level. (I am in no hurry to experience gold though, hehehe)

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The Ironskin rumor comes with Tomb of Ice, so unless you've got that expansion you won't have it. It culminates in fighting an Ice Wyrm with ironskin and swallow, after which you skin the bastard and give a party member Ironskin.

I like seeing the heroes pick up Taunt, as without some really smart positioning and/or some very fortuitous terrain it just doesn't matter all that much. The way line of sight works coupled with move-shoot-move means there's little they can do to stop one monster from making it so that every other ranged monster can target a non-Taunting hero. Plus the huge range on skeletons makes it so they can easily attack from outside of Taunt's radius.

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sounds like they need to learn how too choose there battles. This happened with our group the first time we played RTL .  We were trying to get through every dungeon and kill everything.   The second time around we chose our battles, this works pretty well. Blitzing dungeons.. go in get what u can and get out if it looks like your gonna give up too many CT's .  Now we are up on the Overlord halfway through copper.

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