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Blood of Martyrs out this week?

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Hi Adam,

since you have the book, is there anything that makes regular prayers somewhat effective against Daemons? I would be happy if it would just have a token effect (yes, I am into "clerical magic 40K"..in that point that it should help to steel the soul and annoy the daemon).

But what is more important... do we get facts about religion? Some prayers and ceremonies? Something like the ten amenments? Even if it is "just this example, next world all might be different"?

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Gregorius21778 said:

Hi Adam,

since you have the book, is there anything that makes regular prayers somewhat effective against Daemons? I would be happy if it would just have a token effect (yes, I am into "clerical magic 40K"..in that point that it should help to steel the soul and annoy the daemon).

But what is more important... do we get facts about religion? Some prayers and ceremonies? Something like the ten amenments? Even if it is "just this example, next world all might be different"?

I'm obviously not Adam but since I got the book too, I'll answer your questions:

Regular prayers aren't anything special - anyone can say a prayer, but that prayer is only really going to bother a daemon if its backed up with real, unshakable faith - and that is represented by the Pure Faith Talent and its associated Faith Talents, all of which are powered by Fate Points. That said, the Ecclesiarchy can provide blessings or sanctify a weapon, all of which have tangible game effects.

Not sure what you mean by facts, but the book describes how the Ecclesiarchy is organised and what it does. It also details the Imperial Creed, at least in terms of its doctrines and teachings - the fact that is something of an eschatonic religion, for example, and its purpose as a control mechanism that teaches adherence to the established hierarchy and status quo.

There aren't really any fully detailed prayers or ceremonies outside of the usual minor sidebar and chapter heading quotations.

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InfinityDoctor said:

Gregorius21778 said:

 

Hi Adam,

since you have the book, is there anything that makes regular prayers somewhat effective against Daemons? I would be happy if it would just have a token effect (yes, I am into "clerical magic 40K"..in that point that it should help to steel the soul and annoy the daemon).

But what is more important... do we get facts about religion? Some prayers and ceremonies? Something like the ten amenments? Even if it is "just this example, next world all might be different"?

 

 

I'm obviously not Adam but since I got the book too, I'll answer your questions:

Regular prayers aren't anything special - anyone can say a prayer, but that prayer is only really going to bother a daemon if its backed up with real, unshakable faith - and that is represented by the Pure Faith Talent and its associated Faith Talents, all of which are powered by Fate Points. That said, the Ecclesiarchy can provide blessings or sanctify a weapon, all of which have tangible game effects.

Not sure what you mean by facts, but the book describes how the Ecclesiarchy is organised and what it does. It also details the Imperial Creed, at least in terms of its doctrines and teachings - the fact that is something of an eschatonic religion, for example, and its purpose as a control mechanism that teaches adherence to the established hierarchy and status quo.

There aren't really any fully detailed prayers or ceremonies outside of the usual minor sidebar and chapter heading quotations.

Thats interesting. It will the first book of its kind to detail any kind of doctrine for the Imperial Creed. Previously published material (even for teh TT game) really only touched on it lightly. I've always gathered that the major doctrine preaches adherence ot duty and following your place in the cogs of the Imperium of Man.

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The Imperial Creed is presented as a core set of tenets, but the Ecclesiarchy has varying degrees of tolerance for interpretation of doctrine outside of these. In fact, the Ecclesiarchy is presented as a very believable religious organisation - it has its extremists and it has its moderates, it has teachings that have changed and diversified across the ages.

The whole question of what constitutes heresy is an interesting topic (and is discussed in the book). A nice example (that I actually hadn't thought of) is raised: Orthodoxy states the divine nature of the God Emperor, but the Space Marines, while faithful to the Emperor, don't generally revere him as a god - breaking a fundamental tenet of the Creed!

The more I've read the book, the more I've enjoyed it. There are some real gems in here, including something rather surprising about the Margin Crusade (which I'm pretty sure hasn't been revealed in earlier books - if it was, I missed it!)

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Hi InfinityDoctor,

thanks for your reply. So, no results from prayer besides mundane moral raising unless you are of the faith. I think my players & I will be able to life with this.

As you was so kind to answer, can you give us a quick summary of the new character options to come? FFG was this time not very insightful with there forcasts.

thank you!

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InfinityDoctor said:

The more I've read the book, the more I've enjoyed it. There are some real gems in here, including something rather surprising about the Margin Crusade (which I'm pretty sure hasn't been revealed in earlier books - if it was, I missed it!)

The Margin Crusade conspiracy is an element of the setting for Deathwatch, though Blood of Martyrs fleshes it out further from the Calixis side of things.

It's not the only link between games I've noticed in there - the intrigue between Cardinals Hestor and Fortis regarding Port Wander and the Koronus Expanse, and Cardinal Fortis' recent alliance/dealings with the Rogue Trader Jonquin Saul (who is described in more detail in Edge of the Abyss) all link into background from Rogue Trader.

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N0-1_H3r3 said:

 

InfinityDoctor said:

The more I've read the book, the more I've enjoyed it. There are some real gems in here, including something rather surprising about the Margin Crusade (which I'm pretty sure hasn't been revealed in earlier books - if it was, I missed it!)

 

The Margin Crusade conspiracy is an element of the setting for Deathwatch, though Blood of Martyrs fleshes it out further from the Calixis side of things.

It's not the only link between games I've noticed in there - the intrigue between Cardinals Hestor and Fortis regarding Port Wander and the Koronus Expanse, and Cardinal Fortis' recent alliance/dealings with the Rogue Trader Jonquin Saul (who is described in more detail in Edge of the Abyss) all link into background from Rogue Trader.

 

I actually have all three games (and every book so far) but oddly, I never associated the Margin Crusade with what is happening in the Josian Reach. I remember the conspiracy regarding the actual location of where the Josian Reach forces are being sent too (the common solider believing they're out amongst the Halo Stars), but it doesn't seem to be the same thing as what is happening with the Margin Crusade. I'll have to re-read Deathwatch.

Gregorius: Player options include the Shrine World, Famulous Protege and Monastic Upbringing Origins, Ecclesiarchical Background Packages, like those presented in other books, that can be purchased at generation: Blessed Birth, Convert, Pilgrim, Omnissian Apostate and Witness To The Divine. Career Alternatives cover Confessor, Frateris Militia, Redemptionist,Arch Exorcist, Drill Abbot, Calixian Witchfinder. The new Cell Directives cover Hereticus Retinue, Firebrands, Iron Evangelists and Sanction Wardens. Sisters of Battle get expanded character creation with careers as alternatives to those in the Inquisitors Handbook - these being Battle Sister, Sister Dialogous, Sister Famulous and Sister Hospitaler with Seraphim, Celestian and Sister Repentia being alternatives to one or more of these at later ranks. 

 

 

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InfinityDoctor said:

Career Alternatives cover (...) Arch Exorcist (...)

 

Hi Doctor,

one final question: is this career option only avaibable to clerics or is it open to psykers as well? One of my psyker players would be very itching to get tools to "fight back the warp". He is one of these "I hate myself for what I am but the emporers will be done!" psykers.

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One word of warning though for those who were looking for a sort of 'Puritans Handbook' ...

Blood of Martyrs absolutely isn't a 'Puritans Handbook'.

It's the 'Player's Guide to the Ecclesiarchy'  ... an awesome read though, loving every page of it thus far, especially the section on the cardinals. 

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Looking forward to this, it has one of my favorite aspects of the setting. The Faith of the God-Emperor. Unfortunately, it also covers my second least favorite part of the setting, the Sisters! (Well, the Tau and Space Marines are close as well).

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InfinityDoctor said:

The Imperial Creed is presented as a core set of tenets, but the Ecclesiarchy has varying degrees of tolerance for interpretation of doctrine outside of these. In fact, the Ecclesiarchy is presented as a very believable religious organisation - it has its extremists and it has its moderates, it has teachings that have changed and diversified across the ages.

So, what are the core tenets of the Imperial Creed according to this?

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There isn't that much extra detail on the Imperial Creed, which remains pretty nebulous, but that can be forgiven to some extent, due to the way that it incorporates native belief systems on a planet by planet basis.

Going back to the faith power discussion, a far more nasty power is the Holy Light ability, which enables the player to spend a fate point, causing them to burn with a bright inner light that does 1D10 energy damage each round to daemons/psykers/those with 20 corruption points or more, to their least armoured location if they are within five metres. Each round they have to make a +20 WP test or catch on fire. If the area covered was larger, then image the havoc it would cause if triggered at a full syposium of the Ordo Calixis... Oh and all melee or point blank attacks against the character get -20 to hit, while long and extreme ranged attacks get +10.

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Gregorius: No, Arch Exorcist is an alternate for Cleric 7+ There are no alternate careers for Imperial Psykers.

LuciusT: The Creed isn't laid out in bullet-points, but there are five pages to read through, so its not lacking in information. The core tenets are basically that the Emperor was human but now he's a god, and that he and no other should be worshiped. Outside of this, the remaining tenets can be a bit variable, depending on the local dogma in force at any given time. The book gives examples of prevalent dogma (such as the coming of The End Times) and some of its variations. The section also covers the Creed's take on psykers, saints, orthodoxy/heresy, mutants/abhumans, aliens and iconoclasm.

 

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There is a difference between word count and actual content,as anyone who has had to listen to political speeches will know.

An additional beef I have with the book is that the sections "System Synods and Cults" (p.34-35) and "Saints of the Calixius sector" (p42-44) are actually covered in more detail in the Inquisitor's handbook (Chapter VIII, Religion and Supersition). The space used could have been better served by more detail on the Ecclesiarch in the Calixius sector, as that is effectively the only form of new background material the writers at FFG are allowed to produce.

Actually, that's probably my main beef with a lot of the material we've seen lately from FFG. It repackages material die-hard 40K fans have largely read before and seems to have less geniuely new factions and cool concepts than we saw in Disciples of the Dark Gods, which I feel is the high-watermark for Dark Heresy and certainly knocks the socks off Edge of the Abyss.

We still haven't had clarification on the lifestyle of the Adeptus Soritas, particularly the thorny issue of chastity. I also am rather peeved at the fact that the small sidebar on p.27, actually says who the current leader of the Temple Tendency is, when "Blood of the Martyrs" is clearly not a book marketed as GMs only.

On the other hand, I like the gear and the faith powers (even if the specular ones can be used a bit too frequently) and love the mention of St Ollanius Pius. I'm currently seeing what a Rank 16 Inquisitor originally of the Soritarius looks like and she's already looking extremely formidable.

I think that Blood of Martyrs opens up the possibility of runinng an Ordo Malleus themed chronicle. Previously, I've always thought that the PCs in Dark Heresy, coupled with the brutal rules for fear make the game more suited to the typical role of the Ordo Hereticus.

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Here's the list of Background packages:

Blessed Birth (Cleric and Soritias) +1 FP

Convert (Feral Homeworld only): Rough and Ready Faith, Former Heathen, Unshakable Faith

Pilgrim (any apart from Tech-Priest): Common Lore: Eccleisarchy, Hardy, Penniless.

Omnissian Apostate (Tech-Priest only): Deceive, Common Lore (Imperial Creed), Rational Liar, Condemned in the Eyes of the Omnissah.

Witness to the Divine (Guardsman only): Pure Faith.

 

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Although, by and large I liked this book, one thing struck me as missing is a detailed Ministorum-events timeline specific to the Calixis Sector region. 

For example we could have had expanded detail on the punishment of the Sepulchral Brotherhood and it's transormation into the DeVayne Incorporation ... and possible remaining links between the Incorporation and the Ministorum. Or we could have had way more detail on continuing, or past, religious wars in the region.

What's in the book is pretty good, but I could have done with a bit more specific Calixian detail. Notably the Calixian Synod stuff is very good for example, with the Synod members being very interesting and useable.  

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The new "Homeworlds" are:

Shrine Worlds, Famulous Protege, Monastic Upbringing.

New Career Ranks:

Confessor (Arbitrator or Cleric ) Rank 1 or higher

Frateris Militia (Adept, Cleric or Scum), Rank 1 or higher

Redemptonist (Assasin or Cleric), Rank 1 or higher

Arch Exorcist (Cleric), Rank 7 or higher

Drill Abbot (Guardsman) Rank 5 or higher

Calixian Witchfinder (Cleric) Rank 5 or higher

Cell Directives:

Hereticus, Firebrands, Iron Evangelists and Sanction Wardens.

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Oh and ... my God ... the typos. sad.gif

I read several bits to a friend over the phone, various snippets I thought were good, other bits he was interested in, seven or eight sections of the book ... and every single time I hit a typo as I was reading. This book is FULL of typos, to a level I personally don't think even FFG has reached before. Typos are everywhere. Honestly, it doesn't seem like it was edited at all.

 

 

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Lucifer216 said:

There is a difference between word count and actual content,as anyone who has had to listen to political speeches will know.

An additional beef I have with the book is that the sections "System Synods and Cults" (p.34-35) and "Saints of the Calixius sector" (p42-44) are actually covered in more detail in the Inquisitor's handbook (Chapter VIII, Religion and Supersition). The space used could have been better served by more detail on the Ecclesiarch in the Calixius sector, as that is effectively the only form of new background material the writers at FFG are allowed to produce.

Actually, that's probably my main beef with a lot of the material we've seen lately from FFG. It repackages material die-hard 40K fans have largely read before and seems to have less geniuely new factions and cool concepts than we saw in Disciples of the Dark Gods, which I feel is the high-watermark for Dark Heresy and certainly knocks the socks off Edge of the Abyss.

We still haven't had clarification on the lifestyle of the Adeptus Soritas, particularly the thorny issue of chastity. I also am rather peeved at the fact that the small sidebar on p.27, actually says who the current leader of the Temple Tendency is, when "Blood of the Martyrs" is clearly not a book marketed as GMs only.

On the other hand, I like the gear and the faith powers (even if the specular ones can be used a bit too frequently) and love the mention of St Ollanius Pius. I'm currently seeing what a Rank 16 Inquisitor originally of the Soritarius looks like and she's already looking extremely formidable.

I think that Blood of Martyrs opens up the possibility of runinng an Ordo Malleus themed chronicle. Previously, I've always thought that the PCs in Dark Heresy, coupled with the brutal rules for fear make the game more suited to the typical role of the Ordo Hereticus.

To be fair, that content isn't padded with superfluous waffle though, and you do have to make allowances for the fact that not everyone reading these books is going to hold an encyclopedic knowledge of the 40K Universe. I'm relatively new to it, for example, and came in through Eisenhorn and the Horus Heresy books rather than any of the other stuff - therefore I'm not really sure why the issue of Sisters Of Battle chastity is a thorny one...I just thought they were kinda like the Bene Gesserit, but with big guns. happy.gif

But yep, there is some repetition, and I do agree that this ISN'T a "safe to give to players" book - its not just the Temple Tendency, there are other background revelations in there (the Margin Crusade springs to mind, and the background entries for the cardinals.) Not really an issue for me, since my players prefer to learn stuff as they play rather than read huge chunks of background detail, so they never take the books away, but if yours do normally, I wouldn't let them in this instance.

Actually, the last part of the above post made me wonder: Do you folks focus your games on just one of the Ordos? I know the PCs tend to be in the service of a single Inquisitor, but I've been treating them as a kind of "Shared Resource" between a couple of characters (in a min-clique), with their proximity to an event or suitability to investigate determining their involvement in the adventures (when they're not just following something up on their own initiative). Does everyone do this differently?

 

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On the subject of sororitas chastity. They care solely for the emperor and why in the nine hells would they allow another man to desecrate them? The emperor is more man than the rest of the galaxy's men put together!

Of course they are chaste!

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