Dual shot plus full automatic fire

[Tiltowait 99]

Last weekend during game play our Arch Militant fired dual storm pistols on full automatic fire using the dual shot talent. 

Some of us thought the overall damage was high (~150)...but reading the rules although it is implied, we were unable to find where the rules explicitly state that you are only limited to single fire. 

I scanned the forums and one person posted an 'official answer' in the Dark Heresy forums.

http://fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=99&efcid=3&efidt=315481 But as this was without a quotation or citing a rules source page reference we again could not confirm it. 

I am unable to find where the errata for Dark Heresy explicitly states you are limited to single fire.   Can anyone find an official rules statement that supports this? 

The most recent errata I am able to find on the support page is from April 2009.  Dual shot is not mentioned at all in Rogue Trader errata.

Thanks.

 

[Bilateralrope 144]

First of all, applying storm to a pistol sounds like a bad move from the gm.

 

For the rest, I've said it in the DH thread. As the text in RT is the same, my points are also.

[Errant 185]

 "The explorer's skill with guns is such that he can target two shots on exactly the same point."

Two shots.

[Mahali2 0]

"Shots" meaning attack roll which can be single, semi, or full auto.

[Errant 185]

Dual Shot is a Talent that allows you to fire two shots from two pistols as a Full Action. This is, essentially, a new Attack option for the character. Full Auto is a SEPARATE Attack option.

[Kalec Fash 0]

Mahali said:

"Shots" meaning attack roll which can be single, semi, or full auto.

 

No, it doesn't mean that at all.

[Bilateralrope 144]

Mahali said:

"Shots" meaning attack roll which can be single, semi, or full auto.

Lets say this is true: There is only one attack roll with Dual Shot, so "both shots" doesn't make any sense, even with single shot.

[Whee! 0]

sounds fun and pretty cool . As Dm/gm handling someone that tried that  "drive a tractor trailor thru the eye of the needle " crap he got   his  2/two hits   the rest went wild  as his guns bucked in his hands as he fought for control.    he cried but i asked where does it say for degrees of success   do you get  the extra ones?  it even says in the short  blurb under the  talent on page 91   "one ballistic skill test hits target twice"    

I know we miss common sense sometimes  but dual shot is for the player with   revolvers or the like . not some git looking to min/max , munkin , beardy the game up.          you dont need them   if they cannot play with some sort of decency you need to excuse them.   

it helped too that we also went to a range and i asked him to do the same thing with 1600 rounds of ammo and paper dolls at his disposal.   his complaint was he was not a Character . even with  the 4 hours we had burning up ammo and all the help from the pro gunners.     the same description i gave him is what happened every time.

[Alox 107]

Two weapon fighting explicitly states that it allows full/semi auto as part of its firing options. Auto fire are normally a full action in it self. So it is very nice of the two weapon fighting style to allow each weapon to do auto-fire.

Dual shot does not allow auto-fire, since it is not mentioned in the talent. At least that would be my interpretation.

Also notice that red dot laser sight only works on single shot guns. And red dot laser sight is applicable on dual shot talent.

But it is your game, if you like dual shot to be auto-fire capable, go ahead.

 

 

[the 8 spider 0]

from france

i like cinematic style when it can save the life of players and i remenber that in "mutant chronicles" for what is worth the bauhaus officer dual shots with two automatics on full auto. so why not?

[N0-1_H3r3 287]

the 8 spider said:

from france

i like cinematic style when it can save the life of players and i remenber that in "mutant chronicles" for what is worth the bauhaus officer dual shots with two automatics on full auto. so why not?

Is that dual shot, or two weapon fighting, though?

[the 8 spider 0]

from france

good question. i have a doubt now. i will chek the book.

[Hypersonicbunny 0]

While the letter of the rule is unclear, stating two shots, but not defining shots, I'm inclined to allow the more cinematic resolution. These characters are larger than life, and a turn is long enuf to utter between ten and twenty words... Seems to me a blaze of gunfire from two pistol size weapons should be more than two bullets.

[Errant 185]

 But it's not a blaze of gunfire, it's splitting the arrow in twain. It's having both bullets strike the exact same point at the same time. Read Dual Strike just below. The only difference in phrasing between the two talents is replacing the word 'weapon' with 'shot'.

[Graspar 1]

Hypersonicbunny said:

 

While the letter of the rule is unclear, stating two shots, but not defining shots, I'm inclined to allow the more cinematic resolution. These characters are larger than life, and a turn is long enuf to utter between ten and twenty words... Seems to me a blaze of gunfire from two pistol size weapons should be more than two bullets.

 

 

 

Quite, but that particular gunslinging trope is covered with TWW (ranged), ambidextrous AND gunslinger. That'll enable you to make two bursts like it's nobodies business without the need for silly rules lawyering that "both shots" mean "all 12 bullets". But you subtract armour and TB from each bullet instead of dual shots 2x armour 1x TB per two shots. Three talents for enabling making an obviously sub par attack when compared to dual shot if dual shot is allowed to make full auto attacks, and dual shot requires only two talents.

 

It's not unclear at all, I don't even think the wording supports such an interpretation (I mean come on, "both shots". Besides, in every other case when they mean "generic attack action of unspecified type" they write "attack action") but put in context with the rest of the rules it's really really clear how the talent works.

[Netherek 0]

Full auto and semi auto are their own specific actions so you must use those actions to perform said action. As dual shot uses it's own action or it's a modified standard attack action don't have the book handy, the two may not be combined.

 

[Hypersonicbunny 0]

 I stand corrected. 

Thanks for the information.