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Corbon

New ideas for the FAQ

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Corbon said:

 

3) This has been discussed recently. I am personally of the opinion that it is fairly logically necessary that the hero in a portal no longer gets turns, nor can use abilities and is effectively removed form the game. But I could see it as possibly FAQ-able. The second parts about the last hero exiting the dungeon when one is already in the portal are more interesting. I think it is quite FAQ-able to ask if the last hero gets to finish his action. I don't think it is necessary to ask about the other heroes - they clearly do not get turns (they should have gone in a different order).

 

 

I think that it was answered anywhere that a hero could enter the portal and take a rest token (and he would regain his fatigue at the beginning of the next level).

EDITED: I found it. GLOAQ:

Can a hero place a rest order before entering a portal, and recieve full fatigue when the next dungeon level begins?
I was going to say "no, because moving removes the Rest order," but a careful re-read of the Journeys in the Dark rules revealed that I was in error! I can find no reason why a hero cannot do this. (Although technically, he would not be restored to full fatigue until his individual turn began and would still lose his rest order if he somehow took damage before then.)

So it seems that the hero cannot take more turns after entering the portal.

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One suggestion:

Is there any hero that with Acrobat? If the asnwer is no, then you could modify this question:

Q: Can shallow Water and deep Water penalties be
ignored by figures with Fly or heroes with Acrobat?
A: Figures with Fly may ignore these penalties. Figures
with the Acrobat skill still suffer the water penalties.

As you know, Acrobat is a forbidden skill in SOB.

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gran_orco said:

One suggestion:

Is there any hero that with Acrobat? If the asnwer is no, then you could modify this question:

Q: Can shallow Water and deep Water penalties be
ignored by figures with Fly or heroes with Acrobat?
A: Figures with Fly may ignore these penalties. Figures
with the Acrobat skill still suffer the water penalties.

As you know, Acrobat is a forbidden skill in SOB.

That does not need modification. It is a good answer that covers the current situation and allows for any future expansions or new heroes that can combine Acrobat and shallow/deep water.

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I do not support this question. Currently it is not possible to use Acrobat in SoB, so the question is purely hypothetical.

A similar hypothetical question would be "How can the OL ever win with the Eternal Night plot from RtL in SoB - there is no Plains of the Ruby Gate in SoB?!"

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Parathion said:

I do not support this question. Currently it is not possible to use Acrobat in SoB, so the question is purely hypothetical.

A similar hypothetical question would be "How can the OL ever win with the Eternal Night plot from RtL in SoB - there is no Plains of the Ruby Gate in SoB?!"

It is an existing question already in the FAQ (pg19). It is not entirely hypothetical because heroes can have Fly. By including Acrobat the question covers future possibilities as well as current ones.

I don't see any point in changing this existing FAQ question.

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There are a few effects and situations in which the heros can be wounded while the party marker is on the overland map (e.g. Tavern Brawl (Rumor card), Nightmare non-combat encounter (or whatever the exact title is)).

Q1. Can a hero cancel these wounds using fatigue if he is equipped with Ghost armor, or by using the special ability of an equipped Elven cloak or similar items?

A1-1. Yes, he can use any items to prevent the wounds as if he were in a dungeon or (combat) encounter. Fatigue is fully restored after any such event, since there is enough time to rest, making the hero with Ghost armour immune towards these type of wounds.

A1-2. Yes, he can use any items to prevent the wounds as if he were in a dungeon or (combat) encounter. Fatigue is not restored after any such event / fatigue is only restored after (non-combat) encounters as usual, making the hero with Ghost armour immune towards these type of encounters (choose one).

A1-3.  A hero can only use the special ability of an Elven cloak or similar items, he cannot use fatigue while the party marker is on the overland map.

A1-4. No, a hero cannot use any items to prevent or cancel these wounds.

 

If the answer to Q1. is any one of A1-1 to A1-3:

Q2. During such an event, can the heros still apply the rule of freely passing around items while their party marker is on the overland map, giving each hero the opportunity to use it against these type of wound sources?

A2-1. No, the events have to be resolved in their entirety before other effects can happen or before the heros can do anything else.

A2-2. Yes, they still can pass around items freely in the midst of resolving such an event.

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Parathion said:

There are a few effects and situations in which the heros can be wounded while the party marker is on the overland map (e.g. Tavern Brawl (Rumor card), Nightmare non-combat encounter (or whatever the exact title is)).

Q1. Can a hero cancel these wounds using fatigue if he is equipped with Ghost armor, or by using the special ability of an equipped Elven cloak or similar items?

A1-1. Yes, he can use any items to prevent the wounds as if he were in a dungeon or (combat) encounter. Fatigue is fully restored after any such event, since there is enough time to rest, making the hero with Ghost armour immune towards these type of wounds.

A1-2. Yes, he can use any items to prevent the wounds as if he were in a dungeon or (combat) encounter. Fatigue is not restored after any such event / fatigue is only restored after (non-combat) encounters as usual, making the hero with Ghost armour immune towards these type of encounters (choose one).

A1-3.  A hero can only use the special ability of an Elven cloak or similar items, he cannot use fatigue while the party marker is on the overland map.

A1-4. No, a hero cannot use any items to prevent or cancel these wounds.

 

If the answer to Q1. is any one of A1-1 to A1-3:

Q2. During such an event, can the heros still apply the rule of freely passing around items while their party marker is on the overland map, giving each hero the opportunity to use it against these type of wound sources?

A2-1. No, the events have to be resolved in their entirety before other effects can happen or before the heros can do anything else.

A2-2. Yes, they still can pass around items freely in the midst of resolving such an event.

Even if the answer to your first question is A-1 to A-3 IMO the wounds would all occur at the same time.  Cancelling wounds happens as they occur, it is not healing it is preventing the damage.  So passing around the item after the wounds have occured wouldn't help the party.

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@ dragon: "IMO" doesn´t help very much here. We have a clear rule that the heros may pass around items freely, and I´d like to clarify whether the above situations are exemptions from that general rule.

 

Whilst checking the RtL rumor and non-combat encounter cards, I noticed a few other small uncertainties, which might all go into our list:

 

1. Rumor "Down a hole": Use before making an attack roll. The hero chooses the result of that attack roll.

Is this attack subject to Dodge as usual, and how does it interact with it? Might be lumped together with the Killing Blow question.

 

2.  Non-Combat Encounter "The Alchemist": Heroes may buy up to five potions for 25 each.

Is this subject to the cost increase for potions if the plot card "Greed an Hatred" (cost for potions in cities is increased by 25)?
(Was "in cities" added intentionally to the plot card text?)

 

3. Non-Combat Encounter "A Wandering Merchant": Heroes may shop as in a city with a Market rating of three.

Is this subject to the plot card "Greed and Hatred" (Market rating of all cities decreased by 1)?

Is this subject to the rumor reward "A Mother´s Lament" (Market rating of all cities increased by 1)?

Is this subject to the rumor reward "Prince of Thieves" (20% discount on all items "in the Market")?

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Parathion said:

@ dragon: "IMO" doesn´t help very much here. We have a clear rule that the heros may pass around items freely, and I´d like to clarify whether the above situations are exemptions from that general rule.

I'm not trying to argue about this I just don't see why the second question is necessary when the heroes all gain the wounds at the same moment as the result of a card.  One minute there are at perfect health, the next they are down by 2 or four wounds.  The heroes who are allowed to cancel wounds can use the items they have on hand at that moment.  The others cannot.

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dragon76 said:

Parathion said:

 

@ dragon: "IMO" doesn´t help very much here. We have a clear rule that the heros may pass around items freely, and I´d like to clarify whether the above situations are exemptions from that general rule.

 

 

I'm not trying to argue about this I just don't see why the second question is necessary when the heroes all gain the wounds at the same moment as the result of a card.  One minute there are at perfect health, the next they are down by 2 or four wounds.  The heroes who are allowed to cancel wounds can use the items they have on hand at that moment.  The others cannot.

I agree.

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Well, if we would play in a Descent tournament according to 100% official rules, I would show you the rule that they can pass items around ANYTIME in that circumstance and would ask you to show me the rule that they are affected simultaneously and the card has to be resolved in full, countering and exempting the rule I´ve shown you.  What do you think a neutral arbiter who only has access to all official rules would decide?

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Parathion said:

Well, if we would play in a Descent tournament according to 100% official rules, I would show you the rule that they can pass items around ANYTIME in that circumstance and would ask you to show me the rule that they are affected simultaneously and the card has to be resolved in full, countering and exempting the rule I´ve shown you.  What do you think a neutral arbiter who only has access to all official rules would decide?

Absolutely without question he would decide that you can't all use the same single item at the same time, even if you can pass it around freely. You can all use it consecutively, but not simultaneously.

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Parathion said:

Strong statement, no proof.

You asked...
It is very very simple. You can pass something round all you like, but only one hero can be using it at any one instant. If a card gives a more than one hero wounds from one event, then only one of them can be using the item at the time that event is resolved.

Parathion said:

But I guess we can stop right here - I want it to be included in the FAQ, you don´t.

Well, as we have already seen, get enough (practically any) support, it'll go in.

No matter how stupid I personally think it is. sorpresa.gif

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I guess you don´t have to deal a lot with the ways of thinking of lawyers or judges. In a court, you´d most likely lose your case based on the evidence presented so far (and no, I am neither a lawyer nor a judge).

I am of the same opinion that players cannot pass around items in that particular situation, but mere opinions are not worth a lot to some people...

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My question about power card "trapmaster".The phrase"Trap cards that deal damage deal an additional 2 wounds" be shown on it

"2 wounds" be added to the damage before or after  the hero roll power dice

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pusapapa said:

 

My question about power card "trapmaster".The phrase"Trap cards that deal damage deal an additional 2 wounds" be shown on it

"2 wounds" be added to the damage before or after  the hero roll power dice

 

 

Just play the cards exactly as they read.

Trapmaster
Play this card at the start of your turn and place it face up in front of you. Lower the threat cost of the Trap cards you play by 1. Trap cards that deal damage deal an additional 2 wounds.
If a trap card deals damage, then it deals two additional wounds. It doesn't matter if it is before or after the dice rolled, you just add two to the number of wounds it deal and play the rest of the card exactly as normal.
Some examples....

Spiked Pit+Trapmaster
Play this card when a hero moves into an empty space. Place a one space pit token on that space. Unless the hero rolls a blank on one power die, he falls into the pit and suffers 4 (2+2=4, Trapmaster) wounds (ignoring armor). If the hero rolls a blank, the hero immediately moves to an adjacent space of his choice.
A blank avoids all the damage.

Crushing Block+Trapmaster
Play this card when a hero moves into an empty space that is not adjacent to any obstacles. Place a one space rubble token on that space. The hero suffers 6 (4+2, Trapmaster) wounds (ignoring armor), reduced by 1 wound for each surge he rolls on 4 power dice. Then, move the hero to an adjacent space of your choice.
6 wounds, reduced by 1 for each surge rolled on 4 dice

Scything Blades+Trapmaster
Play this card when a hero moves into an empty space. Place a two-space scything blades token so that it overlaps that space, is completely on the board, and isn't overlapping any obstacles. Any figures in the spaces filled by the scything blades are affected as though they had moved into a space containing the scything blade.  (From Scything Blades: The hero or monster must then roll 1 power die. On a surge, nothing happens. On any other result, the figure immediately suffers 4 (2+2,Trapmaster) wounds that cannot be reduced by armor and gains 1 bleed token.)
Surge avoids all damage, otherwise 4 damage and a bleed token.

Paralyzing Gas+Trapmaster
Play this card when a hero opens a door. Unless the hero rolls a blank on one power die, his turn immediately ends and you may place one stun token on him. If the hero player rolls a blank, this card has no effect.
Trapmaster does not add damage because there is no damage done by the trap card.

Explosive Door+Trapmaster
Play this card when a hero opens a door. Every hero adjacent to the door suffers 6 (4+2, Trapmaster) wounds (ignoring armor). Each affected hero may roll 4 power dice and reduce the effect by 1 wound for each surge he rolls.
6 wounds, reduced by 1 for each surge rolled on 4 dice

Mimic+Trapmaster
Pay this card when a hero opens a chest. The chest is alive, and its contents cannot be distributed until it is killed. Move the chest marker to an adjacent space. Threat it as a Beastman and activate it immediately. After its activation, the hero's turn resumes. If the chest is killed, the contents of the chest are immediately distributed.
Trapmaster does not add damage because there is no damage done by the trap card. (Damage may be done by the chest, but that is damage by the chest, not damage by the trap card).

Sorry, this is a clear rule (what you are asking about). There is nothing ambiguous about it. In my opinion it is not FAQworthy.

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sandmanjp said:

I also wondered this, as for example. Ghost Armour seems very over powered as players tend to load up on fatigue potions and then sack fatigue to burn poison etc.

Yes, it is powerful.  But there is only one of them.  And if there is a hero who is using it, then focus on the other 3 heroes...or whatever number there is.    If the hero with the Ghost Armor is spending all his cash on vitality potions, then he/she is not buying treasures or upgrades.  

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Corbon said:

Crushing Block+Trapmaster
Play this card when a hero moves into an empty space that is not adjacent to any obstacles. Place a one space rubble token on that space. The hero suffers 6 (4+2, Trapmaster) wounds (ignoring armor), reduced by 1 wound for each surge he rolls on 4 power dice. Then, move the hero to an adjacent space of your choice.
6 wounds, reduced by 1 for each surge rolled on 4 dice

Scything Blades+Trapmaster
Play this card when a hero moves into an empty space. Place a two-space scything blades token so that it overlaps that space, is completely on the board, and isn't overlapping any obstacles. Any figures in the spaces filled by the scything blades are affected as though they had moved into a space containing the scything blade.  (From Scything Blades: The hero or monster must then roll 1 power die. On a surge, nothing happens. On any other result, the figure immediately suffers 4 (2+2,Trapmaster) wounds that cannot be reduced by armor and gains 1 bleed token.)
Surge avoids all damage, otherwise 4 damage and a bleed token.

Explosive Door+Trapmaster
Play this card when a hero opens a door. Every hero adjacent to the door suffers 6 (4+2, Trapmaster) wounds (ignoring armor). Each affected hero may roll 4 power dice and reduce the effect by 1 wound for each surge he rolls.
6 wounds, reduced by 1 for each surge rolled on 4 dice

Sorry, this is a clear rule (what you are asking about). There is nothing ambiguous about it. In my opinion it is not FAQworthy.

I don't agree with this ones:

For Crushing Block and Explosive Door the hero would suffer 4 wounds, then roll 4 power dices, then cancel 1 one for each surge and then, if he got any combination other than 4 surges he/she suffers 2 extra wounds (trap master). In other words: if the hero manages to cancell all the 4 wounds, then the card didn't do damadge and the trapmaster wounds bonus doesn't apply.

For Scything Blades: The card by itself doesn't do anydamadge. You are suposed to treat the hero as if he/she had entered the Scyting Blade, but you don't add 2 extra wounds to a SB effect just because the Trap Master is in play.

At first I didn't think this was worth for the FAQ, but it's not that obvous when you think about it. Maybe these combinations should be in the FAQ, or a general rule for cases like them.

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In the case of scything blades, unless something has changed the original Well of Darkness rulebook classification, the Scything Blades are themselves Traps. They are terrain with the Trap keyword, so Trapmaster applies to them.

In the case of trying to have all of the heroes use the same item at once, I would stay away from asking such an odd corner case.  I think it's pretty clear that you can't defy sequence logic by saying "it says you can pass items any time".  By the time you've traded an item, the resolution of the damage has already happened because if one hero suffered the damage (and then negated it), all heroes suffered the damage, since all heroes at the tavern suffer damage when there is a brawl.  It's like saying that all heroes can pass around the same potion and drink it; it fails the test of how the potion survives the "drink" resolution in order to be passed to the next hero.

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Is it explained anywhere if the additional damage is permanent? For example, the scything blades should do 4 damage everytime a hero enters in its space? Or only when the card is played? If not, it could be added to the faq.

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Galvancito1 said:

Corbon said:

 

Crushing Block+Trapmaster
Play this card when a hero moves into an empty space that is not adjacent to any obstacles. Place a one space rubble token on that space. The hero suffers 6 (4+2, Trapmaster) wounds (ignoring armor), reduced by 1 wound for each surge he rolls on 4 power dice. Then, move the hero to an adjacent space of your choice.
6 wounds, reduced by 1 for each surge rolled on 4 dice

Scything Blades+Trapmaster
Play this card when a hero moves into an empty space. Place a two-space scything blades token so that it overlaps that space, is completely on the board, and isn't overlapping any obstacles. Any figures in the spaces filled by the scything blades are affected as though they had moved into a space containing the scything blade.  (From Scything Blades: The hero or monster must then roll 1 power die. On a surge, nothing happens. On any other result, the figure immediately suffers 4 (2+2,Trapmaster) wounds that cannot be reduced by armor and gains 1 bleed token.)
Surge avoids all damage, otherwise 4 damage and a bleed token.

Explosive Door+Trapmaster
Play this card when a hero opens a door. Every hero adjacent to the door suffers 6 (4+2, Trapmaster) wounds (ignoring armor). Each affected hero may roll 4 power dice and reduce the effect by 1 wound for each surge he rolls.
6 wounds, reduced by 1 for each surge rolled on 4 dice

Sorry, this is a clear rule (what you are asking about). There is nothing ambiguous about it. In my opinion it is not FAQworthy.

 

 

I don't agree with this ones:

For Crushing Block and Explosive Door the hero would suffer 4 wounds, then roll 4 power dices, then cancel 1 one for each surge and then, if he got any combination other than 4 surges he/she suffers 2 extra wounds (trap master). In other words: if the hero manages to cancell all the 4 wounds, then the card didn't do damadge and the trapmaster wounds bonus doesn't apply.

The card causes wounds, therefore +2 wounds is added. That some or all wounds may be prevented, does not change the fact that the card caused them.

Galvancito1 said:

For Scything Blades: The card by itself doesn't do anydamadge. You are suposed to treat the hero as if he/she had entered the Scyting Blade, but you don't add 2 extra wounds to a SB effect just because the Trap Master is in play.

At first I didn't think this was worth for the FAQ, but it's not that obvous when you think about it. Maybe these combinations should be in the FAQ, or a general rule for cases like them.

You are correct that you don't add 2 damage to the SB trap for trapmaster. Thundercles is wrong - Trapmaster adds only to Trap Cards, not to Traps in general. But the SB Card itself tells you to treat the hero)(es) as if it (they) had moved onto the SB Trap (which it did not) so the effect of the Card (not the trap) is to deal 2 damage and a bleed, which becomes 4 damage and a bleed under Trapmaster.
I initially read it the way you do, but was shown the error of my ways (and it took me a while to 'see' it).

It is actually clear when you parse things down correctly.

gran_orco said:


Is it explained anywhere if the additional damage is permanent? For example, the scything blades should do 4 damage everytime a hero enters in its space? Or only when the card is played? If not, it could be added to the faq.

 

As noted above, SB Trap does not benefit from Trapmaster so this is also unnecessary.

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